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 Hi everybody. I'm Sandra, I'm an alcoholic. Thank you Abraham for inviting us to come share.

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 This is my new experience for Graham and I. This is like really just so sweet, you know,

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 sharing together. And so, and welcome. I'm glad you're here Maria. So I also just want to thank

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 the women that have come and the men that have come to support Graham and I tonight. There's,

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 you know, when we put out into our community here, like what we need or if we need support,

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 like, you know, people show up, you know, it's like, you know, we have to learn that here. You

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 know, I got to learn that here that, you know, as, you know, one of my sponsors who's online here,

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 you know, shared with me just early on, she would just drill into me, your present matters,

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 you know, and that was just, that was like a shocking, the first time she ever said that to

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 me, like just hit, it was like someone just like, it like hit me so deep and hard. I'd never

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 considered that. I had never considered that because, and so just to like share, you know,

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 kind of what it was like, what happened and what it's like now, you know, Graham and I are a little

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 bit similar. Like I just, I never remember ever feeling comfortable in my own skin. And, you know,

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 I would see kids playing on the playground just from a very young age, just running around,

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 laughing and playing. And I just be like, what, what are they laughing at? What are they talking

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 about? And what is so funny? Like life was just serious always from this. And as long as I can

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 remember, and my first drink, I had a, I have a brother that's six years older than me. So he's,

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 and you know, he's my kind of my whole memory of my childhood is him drinking or using or something,

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 you know? And so it was around and, and my parents were big partiers and there was just alcohol

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 everywhere, everywhere in closets and like cases and then bars and like, you know, just everywhere.

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 No one was keeping track of any of it either. And so when I was nine, excuse me, I had this cold

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 it's three weeks ago. I just have just like, you know, I'll go with, I'm not contagious.

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 And you know, when I was nine and my brother was 15 is when my parents started, like we lived in,

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 in one town and they had a lot of friends that were about 45 minutes away in another town. So

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 they spent a lot of time away from our home with their friends partying. And we were left to,

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 you know, 15 year old and a nine year old, you know, we had a lot, we did a lot of drugs and

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 alcohol. And my first drink was when I was nine. And I just remember this feeling of like,

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 everything just kind of went like this. And I was like, how did I not know about this? Like,

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 it was like magic and it just changed everything. I felt like I fit in my body for the first time

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 ever. And, and the, the world made sense, you know? And and so, you know, I, excuse me,

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 um, you know, so I, you know, drank a lot for being that young. And I remember when, um,

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 Bram was, is my firstborn. I have two children, but I remember when Bram turned nine, I was like,

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 oh my God, like, that's really, that's like a little kid. You know, I like that. I just felt

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 like old and used up, or I just felt like I was having to figure out the world on my own. And I

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 was because, you know, I had a dad that had, you know, lots of isms, um, and a mom that was

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 depressed and, you know, an untreated Al-Anon laser focused on my dad. And, um, and they,

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 you know, there was just no room for kids in that, you know, and, um, you know, no one was paying

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 attention to anything and to certainly to like feelings or struggles or, you know, my brother

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 was the one that kind of acted it all out. And, um, I could see how that was going for him. It

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 was not going very well. He was like the problem. And he had all this focus on him and I was like,

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 I'm just going to like, go free. You know, I was the one that had to sneak out my window. Like I

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 could, I grew up in Kansas, so it was cold. So I would, you know, I had these little windows that,

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 bottom windows that would, that you could roll out and like, you know, sneak out and then stick your

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 arm in. You'd have to like get it as close as you could. Cause you didn't want the cold air going in

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 and signaling anything. Um, I did that all the time and, um, I just wanted to go do what I wanted

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 to do, but I didn't want to pay any consequences. And that was like the story of my life on repeat,

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 like in any, you know, I could fill in the blank. Um, just do what I want to do when I want to do

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 it, how I want to do it and without regard for how it might impact anybody else. And, um, you know,

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 that and alcohol was like my primary tool. It was, you know, I was like, I, you know, alcohol was

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 the thing that, um, filled me with this sense of worth value. Um, I felt seen, I felt important.

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 I felt like in the middle of life, I felt like I could actually stand to be around other people,

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 like being with other people on the natural. So like literally painful, it was just so

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 uncomfortable. And, um, so, you know, that was my experience with alcohol and, um, you know,

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 my brother, you know, I got into, you know, and then insert boys and like an obsession,

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 like any kind of obsession, like as much drama as possible as, you know, much chaos as much sneaking

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 around lying, like just by danger, all of those things, you know, you know, putting my, just,

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 just complete disregard for like my physical, emotional, spiritual safety. Like it just was,

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 it didn't matter. Like, and, um, um, so, you know, the fact that there was this substance

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 on the planet that like made everything make sense and made my life work until I didn't, um,

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 you know, for me, um, was, you know, that, that was just my, that's how I, you know, grew up. Um,

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 when I was 17, my brother went to his first treatment. Um, and just to back up a little

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 bit, like I, um, you know, I, um, I don't want to stick too far too much with what it was like,

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 but, um, when he went to treatment, I was like, it was shocking to me because I had no idea that

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 what we were doing and, you know, you know, I did do a lot of drugs, but only the drugs that

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 could help me drink more. It was really all the alcohol was the thing like, and you know,

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 when you're young, sometimes you can't be picky. Like, so if you can't get alcohol, you know,

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 whatever is around is fine. But, um, alcohol was always my preference. That was the thing that

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 always worked for me. And, um, you know, I would give my brother this like list of alcohol. Like,

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 you know, he would just go to the, you know, I could just get whatever I wanted. It was in the

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 house. I had a brother, you know, so I had a lot of access to it. And then he went to treatment

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 when I was 17 and I was like, wait, what? Like, is this, there's something wrong with what we're

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 doing? Like, I just, you know, it like really, and it did not look fun. So my keen thinking was like,

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 okay, I'm just gonna like, I'm just gonna nip this right now because I don't want to be an alcoholic

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 and I don't have to go to treatment. I don't want to have to do any of that. Um, so I stopped

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 drinking. I just cold Turkey stuff drinking for almost a year. And, um, my life started to unravel.

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 Like I, um, the, all the reasons why I picked up that drink in the first place, um, where, you

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 know, it was right there. Um, and I had not matured or grown or developed any kind of social skills,

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 any kind of personal skills, any kind of life skills, you know, I was, I was just, you know,

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 drinking. Um, so here I am, you know, I'm in high school and, um, you know, when I'm dating someone,

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 a friend that was in that, it's like, I just, my life like imploded, I imploded and, um, and I, um,

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 wound up going, um, on a trip with some girlfriends and, um, it was in to Colorado.

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 So I don't know if any of you know about, but I didn't know this about Colorado that it's,

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 but you can drink. I also, you can drink when you're 18 in, in, uh, you can drink beer when

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 you're 18 in Kansas and in Colorado, and it's the same, but in Colorado, they have a cutoff time.

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 Like, like at a certain time, I think, I don't know, maybe two AM or something like you cannot

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 get alcohol literally anywhere. Like there it's locked up, no liquor store, no grocery store,

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 no nothing, no bar, no nothing. You cannot get it. But I did not know that. So we, we're drinking

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 and I'm not done drinking. And there's like no more alcohol to be had anywhere. And I was like,

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 this cannot be like, it was like, just blew my mind. And my reaction, like so much rage came out

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 of me. Um, like it was like, just, um, it was the first time I, you know, when I got into program

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 and, you know, I had to lift it down, we were going through the book together and they pointed

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 out that like difference between a heavy drinker and an alcoholic that phenomenon of craving. Once

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 you take that first drink, like you just don't have control, don't know how much you're going

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 to drink or what's going to happen, or if you can stop or not. But, you know, that was a really

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 important experience for me because, you know, I picked a fight with like a 300 pound bouncer.

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 Like I just was like, um, and I was drinking other people's drinks, like at the bar. Like,

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 I was just like, there, I could not stop drinking. Like it wasn't. So it was, um, it was like a

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 mental, physical torture that I was like, that's probably not normal relationship with alcohol.

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 And, um, and so like the rest of my life started to like, you know, just implode. And, um, I did

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 eventually make a call. I was in my first year of college. I made a call to my mom and, um, I was

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 having, you know, maybe I had broken up with a boyfriend or we were having trouble or something.

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 And, um, and I just said, I really, I still didn't like connect, like that I'm an alcoholic,

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 you know? Um, and, but I knew, I just thought I was going crazy. Like I just thought, you know,

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 so when she offered treatment to me, I had an aunt that had gone to treatment and she had gone

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 to treatment for codependency. And I thought, well, maybe that's my problem. And like, to me,

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 I was like, yeah, I think other people are my problem. Yeah, I can't be. I don't know. I just

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 needed some sort of help because I knew like I wasn't able to hold it all together. Like the

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 wheels were falling off the bus. And, um, and so I wound up going to treatment and, um, you know,

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 it was kind of like this sliding time. It's got like four to seven weeks. Of course I was there

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 at the maximum amount of time. And like, that's when I, you know, got introduced to the big book

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 and, um, just, um, just to, and, and to AA meetings. And, um, I mean, we went to AA meetings

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 really just to have the coffee and donuts because you couldn't have caffeine and sugar at this

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 treatment center. And, um, so, um, I know it was awful. So it was like, what are they going to do

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 with AA? So I don't remember anything that was said in any of those meetings, but I will tell

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 you, so I, at the end of that, um, the gift was, they said, um, you know, I was like, just like,

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 let me just get out of here and like get back to my life. And, um, you know, they said, you know,

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 of course go to AA meetings. Okay, sure. Sure. But when I went, did my outtake, they said,

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 we think that you should go to Silver Living and, um, for a year. And I just, I had that moment.

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 I said, okay. They said, do you want to go to Baton Rouge or Pacific Grove, California? And

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 I was like, California sounds better. I mean, I knew nothing. So I went to this, um, this Silver

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 Living. I, and, um, it was gorgeous. I was in Pacific Grove and, uh, you know, and, um, I just

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 remember going to my first AA meeting there. Like I was like, okay, I had kind of participated in my,

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 this choice here. And that's like, okay, let me see what, and it was kind of similar to this room,

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 but bigger. And, um, I don't know, there may be a hundred people in this meeting and there was a guy

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 in a suit sharing his story. And, um, I, you know, I was looking at the steps on and there were so

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 many God words are like, you know, and, um, and I just, you know, I, I thought he was like the

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 president of AA or something. He had his suit on. I was like, I'm going to talk to him afterwards

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 if I can get a pass on some of these. I don't think, you know, God is, you know, it's like,

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 there's just two, you know, I can't do that. That's like, and, um, so I, and also in those

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 meetings, it was the first time I, um, just identify, I felt at home, you know, I just,

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 I felt like, um, hope, like I, I believe that people, what they were saying, you know, and it,

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 and, uh, there was a safety here and, and, um, you know, I was just messy, but messy. And, um,

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 I felt like it was a place I could just be messy and just be loved back to health and, um, back to,

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 um, you know, some sanity. And, um, so what, you know, I remember in that meeting too,

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 it was the first time I heard myself laugh. I mean, some of you know me, I have a kind of a

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 big laugh and, um, I didn't know that. I really didn't know that. And like, just like, there's

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 just something about like truth and reality that we get to just be who we are. It's like the,

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 the gift that Aha is giving me is, you know, it's introduced me to myself. Um, it's, you know,

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 a long road. I'm never done. I'm never done with that. There are so many layers to this onion,

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 this person that I am. And, um, and it's like, you know, when I, when I'm teetering on my disease,

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 I don't love that we're never done here. When I'm in the middle of my disease, that is the most

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 exciting, exhilarating thing. You know, it's like, I can go as deep as I want to go and be

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 as free as I want to be. And it, there's just, it's infinite, you know? Um, and you know,

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 this has just been such an amazing, an amazing journey here. And, um, I, I was there. So I was

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 in Monterey for a year and then I decided to go back to, I tried to go back. They have a

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 community college chair. I tried a couple of times to go to classes. I just, I couldn't

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 do, I just, I eventually got with a little job that I could do, but I just, I wasn't much of a

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 functioning person. I just needed to really just go to a bunch of me. I went to like two, three

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 meetings a day. I went to fellowship after every meeting. I just dove into the middle. I had

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 commitments at every meeting and that's just what I needed to do. Um, and, and I'm so, so grateful

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 for that because it was the foundation I was pouring for myself. And, and in, you know,

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 like a few months, it's going to be 40 years. And I, you know, there have been dark, dark times.

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 Life happens like it's lifey stuff happens. And, um, and sometimes it's like, just, I go back to

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 the basics. Like when I just feel like, I can't, I can't feel God in my life. I can't find, you know,

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 I, I just feel, um, untethered, you know, just back to the basic meetings, picking up the phone,

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 you know, putting pendant paper and, um, you know, getting another student. And, um, and, you know,

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 so for today, you know, well, I don't, I don't really know what this, so anyways, I'll just,

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 what time do I remember? Um, so I was about, um, I remember when I was in, I was done with

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 my first year. I was, um, getting close to the end of my first year and someone said, um, you know,

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 I was trying to figure out what to do next, kind of what to do with my life. And, um, and someone

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 just said, if you could do anything, what would it be? And don't listen to your head. And I was

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 like, such a great disclaimer because, you know, I was like, I want to be a designer. And then as

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 soon as that thought came in, I don't really know where that thought came. It's not like I'd been,

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 and, um, I, my head's like, you can't even draw stick people. I'm like, wait, you know,

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 like you can't, you know, like there's, and then, so I just, I literally took this first. Okay. I

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 just, I went to the library cause that's what you did. It was before the internet. And, um,

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 I did believe, um, and, um, with that program and found a program in Long Beach that, um,

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 looked interesting. So I applied, I got in, I packed everything I had in my little car

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 and drove too long. I didn't have a place to live or anything. I just, I went to this orientation

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 thing. It's like hoping to find near somebody to live with. I don't know. And, um, I found someone

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 to live with. And, um, so I'm down now I'm down now I'm away from my AA group that I got my

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 foundation in, you know, and I'm down there and, um, I'm going to meetings and I want to jack

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 needles in my eyes. I'm like, Oh, it just felt like such a chore. There was no joy in the meeting,

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 you know, it's like, and, um, I was just so, so close to taking the drink. And, um, and so I,

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 this is how I talked to God at the time. It's like, okay, God, I'm going to go to one more

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 meeting and you know, and then I'm going to go drink because if this is how sobriety feels,

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 I'd rather be Jackie. Um, you know, so I walk into this meeting and this woman is sharing

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 and she is, um, my age and she has five years of sobriety. And, um, she's talking about this group

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 and she's, she is lit up. Like she just like light is like just coming out of her. And, um,

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 she was just talking about this group and how, um, and I just, and how much fun she was having,

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 all the things she was doing. And, and I just went up to her after and said, take me with you.

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 And, um, it was like an hour drive from where we live. And it's like, I was like, okay, I'm just,

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 I was desperate. And I just, I got in the car and we, and I went to this meeting with her and

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 I remember walking into the meeting and there was like, people were dressed up, they were laughing

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 and smiling and, um, their, the lights were, their eyes were sparkly and they were just, they were,

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 they, everyone knew everyone. I was like, I felt like I'd walked onto another planet. I was like,

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 what is happening here? Like all these young people and, um, just living life and having fun

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 and being sober. And, um, we just, you know, I dove into that group and, um, I commuted there

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 for a long time and then I eventually moved up and, um, then commuted to school. Um, and that's

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 where I, um, really spent the next 10 years and, um, changed my life, changed my life. Um, and I

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 just, I fell in love with Alcoholics Anonymous and service and the fellowship and, um, and

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 the camaraderie, you know, what is, you know, one alcoholic to another. And then I, you know,

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 I learned how to be with other people, you know, these were big meetings, you know, I, I am,

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 you know, I'm still that kid that doesn't want to talk to anybody, you know, and, but I got

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 commitments like, um, the greeting commitment where you just have to shake hands that we didn't

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 even call me that as shake him, you know, and, um, or serve coffee cause there's a table between you

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 and you get to say hi to everybody, but you don't have to like have a conversation because I still

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 didn't know really how to do that. Um, so, and then, um, I got a sponsor that would have these,

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 um, meetings with other women that she sponsored. And I just remember going to the first one just,

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 I cannot wait till this is over. So I could never ever do this again. I've been in the way too

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 intimate, like everyone's really talking about their feelings and there are some people that are

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 crying, like, you know, it just, um, and I, so I learned little by slowly by taking a lot of

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 contrary action, you know, because I wanted what other people have. I could see the, you know,

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 even though that was super uncomfortable to me, I could see the intimacy. I could see the value.

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 I could see how I could see lives changing, you know, and I could, I could hear their stories and,

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 um, and I did want that. I just didn't really want to take all the contrary action needed to do that,

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 but that's why I had a sponsor because, you know, I get good orderly direction and I was willing,

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 you know, I was willing. Um, and you know, and now I have those meetings with myself.

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 And, um, you know, and I, you know, and I, I met my husband and, you know, in AA and, um, we, we

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 were friends for like a year. Um, I didn't really, you know, he just really became like my best

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 friend and, and people thought we were, you know, dating. I was like, oh, it's like my buddy, you

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 know, like I didn't know. And, um, you know, it was him, you know, I've had to, I really had to

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 go on this journey with God. I will tell you like, it's first, first, it was like the room,

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 like, that's why I went to so, so many meetings for a long time. I still go to a lot of meetings,

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 um, because there's a power greater than me in this room, like right now. And, you know,

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 I can feel that, you know, and then that, that segway into, you know, I had, I had a hard time

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 with the, with the Lord's Prayer. I had to read Emmett Fox's, you know, Breakdown of the Lord's

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 Prayer. I just, I needed to know, like, what is it that we're saying here? Why, why, this just feels

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 too religious. And I just had, you know, I'm not, nothing against, you know, any, I mean, I used the

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 word God today because I feel like it is so expansive. It is such an expansive word. To me,

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 it's not a narrow word. It is so expansive. And I'm, today, I am curious and fascinated about

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 different religions and practices, you know, it's like, there's whatever, you know, I just feel like

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 my heart is open and, um, I have, I have been, I've received the next, you know, spiritual

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 experience along the way that I'm supposed to have. And they just keep happening. And I,

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 because I keep, you know, opening myself to what's next. And, um, and, you know,

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 I feel like I've been taught here to have an attitude of, um, you know, I've never done,

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 you know, I haven't arrived. I haven't figured anything out, you know, and just, you know, and

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 when I can really just, you know, live in that way, like the gifts and the things that get revealed

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 and the experiences I get to have are really beautiful. And, um, and they're, they're what

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 I need, right when I need them, you know, and I've discovered some really important spiritual

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 concepts. They're like, I don't have to do anything alone ever, you know, and I have what

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 I need when I need it, just exactly what I need it. I just have to stick where my feet are. And I

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 can't, you know, page 86 through 88 of the book are just like magic pages to me. You know, it,

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 it tells us how to, how we actually can feel our intuition and, and how it can be returned to us.

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 For most people growing up in alcoholism, you know, it's pretty obliterated. And, um, so those,

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 you know, when I actually do the things that it says in those pages, and I say those prayers that

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 it says in those pages, um, you know, that is like the life changing. And, you know, just what I

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 learned from those pages is taking the next indicated step, like what is in front of me,

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 you know, God's will is the thing that's just right in front of me to be done. And when I start

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 taking action for an intended result, I've just, I've stepped away from God's like, just, what's

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 the next thing what's in front of me to be done, even if there's a big gargantuan decision to be

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 made? I, you know, I still just have to, what is the thing that's in front of me? What am I doing

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 right now? And just leaving the results up to God, like, I'm going to know, I'm going to know what I

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 need to know. You know, um, I did, I did get married. I grew up with, um, Chris and, you know,

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 in AA, we grew up together, you know, we were young and, and, um, and we had two boys, we had

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 the silver homes and, you know, we had an AA home where people would, you know, we had parties and,

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 um, and, um, you know, we started to grow apart about 10 years ago or so started to grow apart.

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 And I, um, I really just, you know, had to surrender this marriage. You know, I just said,

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 all right, God, I'm willing to be married. I'm willing not to be married, but today I am married.

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 So just show me how to be the best wife that I can be best wife and partner and friend. And, um,

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 and that was really, that was really helpful because God came right in as soon as I just,

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 and, and the other thing that happened is like, all these women started coming into my life one

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 after another hungry for program and wanting to go through the steps, wanting to like have these

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 book studies and getting to get, you know, it's like, and I just thought, that's a really

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 interesting college. Like, you know, I surrender my marriage and then you thrust me into the big

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 book with these women that, you know, where I get to see them transform and I get to see like God

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 in their lives. And that is, um, and, and, you know, there was a lot of, you know, I,

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 I am not with Chris today. We separated a couple of years ago. We are divorced. And, um, you know,

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 that, um, I don't think about my marriage as like a failed marriage at all, at all.

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 Like, I just feel like this is a next chapter. And, um, you know, we had a really great marriage.

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 We really did. We have two beautiful, amazing, incredible boys. And, um, and, you know, we were,

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 we're, and we are still good life partners, you know, we are. And, um, and, you know,

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 I don't know why that, you know, I, I just know, like, I, I cannot self, when I really try and

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 force a solution or self-will my life, it doesn't go well for me or anyone. And it just, it just

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 cuts me and everyone I love off from the sunlight of the spirit. I'm trying to hide it.

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 And, you know, when, you know, it was like everything that I've kind of done major in my

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 life, you know, I really don't want to self-will things anymore. It just, you know, it really has

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 to, you know, if I can just do the work that I need daily, I have access to, um, a God voice

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 that really does guide my life. And, um, you know, when it was time for that marriage to be over,

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 it was like, it was so loving, quiet, and calm. It was just like this. And, um, I had done a lot

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 of work, but, you know, uh, I had done a lot of writing, a lot of inventories, and, um, and,

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 you know, when there's a truth that's revealed, if I can have a decision to make, you know,

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 am I going to ignore that? You know, that's, I start to harm myself and others, like, you know,

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 start shoving down, trying to manipulate and control reality, shoving down feelings I don't

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 want to have. And, um, you know, that's just not, um, I have other tools today, you know,

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 I have other tools and, um, and so for today, um, you know, I'm learning, you know, how to play,

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 how to be on my own. I am, um, you know, learning more about myself and, you know,

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 I feel like I'm on just like a really, another, a whole other chapter that I didn't know

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 I was going to have. And, um, and, you know, and, and I, um, for him, like, we, uh, we've talked,

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 you know, frequently, just like what a gift this time is to like, you know, to be with him during

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 this time of sobriety and that he is, you know, I love having, having you at, you know, it's awesome.

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 And, you know, we have our coffee, daily readers, meditate, and then we go to our meetings. We go to

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 morning meetings and, you know, that's when we start our day. And that's what, that's also what,

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 you know, I, I have to get up early. I have to get ahead of my, um, disease every day. And, um,

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 and it takes, it takes a few hours of my time. Most of the time I get up, you know, read, write,

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 pen the paper. I make some calls. I take some calls, you know, do reading, meditating. It's

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 like people always, but it's like, that's what it takes for me to be like, you know, pass as a human

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 in the world. You know, I'm, I'm a good worker. I, you know, people trust me, people trust me

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 with their kids. Um, you know, I went back and I got, you know, I got a couple degrees here in AA.

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 Like that was like, you know, talk about a lot of contrary action and things like that. That was,

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 that was tough. And, um, that was, that was another good thing. I'll just, I just want to say

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 this one thing. I was sitting in a meeting and someone was talking about going back

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 and getting another degree. And, um, and I was just, I was sitting there and it was just like,

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 it just pierced my heart. And I was just like, God, I just knew like, that was like a giant

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 God tap for me because someone had, you know, I've been encouraged, been encouraged to go back and

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 study this one area. And, um, and I just thought, Oh God, please don't send me back to school. So

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 hard. So really like we can do anything one day at a time. And, and we, I cannot do anything alone.

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 I can't, I don't have to, but I actually, I can, I have to, I get humbled so quickly when I try and

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 figure things out on my own and, and, um, to run my life. So I, um, I'm so grateful that there is a

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 place and all of these, uh, steps, and this is how we, you know, these are the steps. This is how we

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 develop a relationship with God. Every time I've gone through these steps, I wind up with a deeper

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 relationship with God and myself. And, um, you know, and this is a really, the fact that we,

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 any of us are here sober, even one day is, you know, it's a miracle. So thanks for when we have

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 (indistinct)