Ralph's Journey: From Court-Ordered AA to 27 Years Sober
S23:E51

Ralph's Journey: From Court-Ordered AA to 27 Years Sober

Episode description

Ralph shares his life story, from early drinking in North Africa and France to a court-mandated entry into Alcoholics Anonymous. He reflects on misconceptions about alcoholism, his long marriage, legal challenges, and gratitude for the fellowship that sustained his 27-year sobriety.

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0:00

Thank you very much.

0:01

Hi, my name is Ralph and I'm a grateful recovering alcoholic.

0:04

Thank you very much for inviting me Ben, it's a pleasure sir.

0:08

And thank you very much for your lead and for your share, very touching and very important

0:12

all the stuff you said.

0:15

Thank you for the warm welcome and everybody for your hospitality for allowing me to come

0:19

and speak to you folks.

0:20

Again my name is Ralph, I'm an alcoholic, trying to get some things out of the way.

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I got sober at the age of 50 or there about back in August, August 4th of 1999 is my sobriety

0:33

date.

0:34

I haven't had a drink or any mind-altering substance from that day on and from that I

0:38

am grateful and I have Alcoholics Anonymous and all of its members and its activities

0:43

and literature and so on to thank for allowing me to stay sober and helping you stay sober

0:50

a day at a time.

0:51

I came into the Alcoholics Anonymous program through the court system, I was a court ordered

0:57

to attend AA, I wasn't smart enough to go to a center or detox or going to AA meetings

1:05

on my own.

1:06

I honestly didn't know much, I didn't know anything actually about alcoholism as a disease.

1:13

I thought it was a matter of bad habits and moral or rather immoral turpitude and just

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weakness in willpower, weakness in being able to stop drinking and that's what it was.

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These are kind of defects but they're also a sign of my misunderstanding of alcoholism

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as it was diagnosed by the American Medical Association decades ago as a disease, as a

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mental physical disease with its traits and it's classified among other chronic illnesses

1:50

and I suffered of that and didn't know it but August 4th of 99 or August 3rd of 99 actually

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eve I had a car accident, I live a little bit just to identify because I didn't always

2:04

feel this way or thought this way or think about life and about friends and about humanity

2:11

the way I do now, now that I am sober, I wasn't this way before.

2:17

I drank probably at the age of 18 or thereabout I was born in North Africa and to a Muslim

2:25

family with lots of discipline but also lots of love and a huge extended family that was

2:33

really very applied together and lived in Jewish neighborhoods primarily, grew up there

2:42

and attended schools that were primarily Jesuit in training and in teaching and absolutely

2:49

no issues in my upbringing at all, my father didn't drink to my knowledge ever, neither

2:56

did my mother, I have five sisters who don't drink, I have two brothers who do but I wasn't

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aware alcohol is being running through our family at the level of genetics and stuff

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like that and when I began to drink it was probably about the age of 16, 17 and it was

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sneaking it with friends and buddies and so on and drinking mostly in graveyards at night

3:21

where nobody could, very quiet, where nobody could interfere and so on but it did have

3:28

an effect on me, it helped me cope with the issues that men going through puberty, go

3:38

through adolescence, those kinds of problems and it made things a little bit tamer and

3:43

a little bit easier to survive in. I left the country in 1969 at the age of 20 to go

3:51

to France to go to college there and I picked up there, I picked up drinking there and I

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used to justify my drinking when I lived in Paris for two and a half years, I used to

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justify the drinking, excessive drinking actually on the fact that it was cold in France compared

4:08

to that. So instead of spending the money on better goods or thicker socks I spent it

4:13

on red wine and I consumed quite a bit of it unfortunately for me but I did take a liking

4:23

to it because it first of all it lessened my sense of lack of confidence, being a stranger

4:33

in the Spanish land where I lost college and I had to recover in some way and airports

4:38

are loading, great planes and stuff and I did all kinds of hard work while I was going

4:44

to college in the daytime but the drinking took off and I remember I was hanging around

4:51

lots of folks and places where copious amounts of alcohol were consumed and I took advantage.

4:59

I came to this country first in '60 but I came back in 1971 permanently and I've been

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here ever since in June of '71 and I began working a different job that came with a green

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card which I got from the American Embassy in Paris and I began working in different

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places and going to college and getting promoted because I was in addition to being an alcoholic

5:24

which again I didn't know, I was also a workaholic so whatever job, whatever task I was given

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I tended to excel at Alice because I was perfectionist in whatever I did, I worked with compulsion

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so I had that OCD trait of alcoholism in me from the beginning and so I was getting promoted

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and I couldn't blame alcohol for anything because things were working out and I married

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my wife in September of 1974 and we've been together ever since so it's been 49 years

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now after we've been together, she has been a saint for 25 out of those 49 years, that's

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the ultimate experience, she really was extremely patient and tolerant and very, very understanding

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and at the same time I'm treated alone in enabling my thing because I was again successful

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after I was making money, I was buying new cars every five or six years and bought homes

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and had the kids going through private schools in the beginning and stuff so everything was

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going hunky-dooly but I began collecting DUIs from 1978, I think my first one was in 1978,

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I had an attorney friend that I had, I should have had him on retailer but I didn't but

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he was a criminal defense lawyer and just a wonderful man, his name was Adrian Barinovich,

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I say his name because he's dead now, he's been dead for about 10 years and he's a wonderful

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guy and he handled my DUIs and he was a smooth operator, he would smooth the city attorney

7:00

or the prosecutor or the judge into dwindling it down from a DUI down to a reckless lane

7:06

change or an unsafe lane change so he did all that stuff but they all were wet as they

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say, they involved alcohol and I don't think I ever had a problem when I was not drunk,

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I mean every time I had a problem, alcohol was involved and I never pointed the finger

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to alcohol or to myself as somebody who is drinking, I always blamed the culture on anything

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better to do than to pick on me while I was being arrested for this or that, I said isn't

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there somebody getting raped right now or getting murdered, why don't you go there and

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leave me alone but it was all really just a childish, very immature way of thinking

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and an inability to face the fact that I had a problem with drinking alcohol, I never faced

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that, I never said that about myself, I just saw a couple of incidents that I haven't forgotten

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and I shared about them in the past so I still remember them fairly well, one of them was

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I think in the mid 80s, like 84, 85, there was a, the French were celebrating in the

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city of Beverly Hills where I worked, I worked for 34 years there, they were celebrating

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a new brood of Cabernet Sauvignon and Beaujolais, red wine and so they had signs everywhere,

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at the discount at every restaurant and bars and so on and so it was discounted very well,

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I went with a friend of mine and a couple of clients to a restaurant just walking distance

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from the office and just began drinking like it was watery and we were having dinner but

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I was actually drinking more than eating and the problem was when I stopped it, I couldn't

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stop, that was my problem as an alcoholic and I never knew that this is the problem,

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it's the first drink and eventually I was arrested at night, I somehow got into my car,

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I was arrested without an accident and came to in the Beverly Hills police jail, jailhouse,

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you know, Bayon City Hall and when I came to in the morning and I realized where I was,

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you know, I thought about last night, I said Jesus Christ, what the heck happened, I don't

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remember at all, I was in a complete blackout and those became recurrent and more and more

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frequent to the blackouts version and I remember that the night before, you know, I remember

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the opportunity for signs all over the place and the, you know, shiny lights and so on

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and but I remember that we had, I had asked for the schedule of the night and the guy

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said it was a fillet of the soul, cooked in an oven on a bed of rice, fillet with lots

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of capers on top and all kinds of sweet stuff and it hit me at that time, in jail, in Beverly

10:02

Hills and it hit me that my problem was I ordered fish with red wine, rather than, you

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know, the wine was the problem, red or pink or purple, it doesn't matter, the wine was,

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I said no, I blame the fish and it's, I violated the basic law of culinary rules, you know,

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that you have meat with red wine, you know, but and that was that, you know, and again,

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my friend Adrian, you know, helped me out, you know, and I called my wife, she came and

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gave me a ride, you know, because they wouldn't let me out of jail till the next morning and

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she came to the poor, so we lived in the port of Ash by that time, I think we were, yeah,

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we were, and she came and taught me some shoes and stuff, I had lost my shoes, I don't know

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when I lost them and yeah, so it's very unbelievable and another event that I still remember to

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this day and I came across it a decade ago, so I was doing some estate planning and I

11:03

came across a less insurance policy that I had taken, my son was sitting here, my son

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was born in 83 and I remember late 83, early 84, I was, I had had an accident already at

11:18

night and we lived in Glendale, I'm up on top of the hill in Glendale and you know,

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windy streets, Merriam Drive, it was really a bad accident, I dislocated my shoulder,

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cut my face, I had back problems and so on, but they didn't arrest me for DUI, I lied

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to them, I just hit somebody who was running into me, so I tried to avoid the magazine's

11:40

black cars, but there was none of that was true really, I was in a blackout and I just

11:44

fell asleep and I hit some black cars and the problem was that I knew that something

11:54

was going to happen to me, that I probably, probably was going to die as a result of my

11:58

drinking, as a consequence of my drinking and I said this and just very irresponsible

12:07

for a father to let his wife soon to become a widow and his son soon to become an orphan

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who we have to face this mortgage on the house, so I went and got a hold of a friend of mine

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who used to work with me, who became a life insurance salesman from New York life and

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I went ahead and bought a life insurance post and I thought that was a responsible thing

12:28

to do, to essentially abdicate his personal responsibility to his family, his conjugal

12:35

duties basically and to, for a premium, for a fee, pass them out to a life insurance company,

12:42

so when I loved that as a result of an accident or a liver thirsting or whatever, that a life

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insurance company would step in, pay off the balance of the mortgage and leave the stipend

12:53

for my wife and my son to be able to raise in schools and so on and so forth and I came

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across that policy about a decade ago, going through and preparing for my life, I still

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have that policy, I converted it into some other form of policy but still have it, it's

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been in effect, it's really amazing, it hit me at that time, I said damn you know, I can't

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believe I thought that way, I had missed that in my first inventories, and so when I had

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that accident on August 3rd of 99 and I explained it, I described it because it really is when

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the psychic change that Bill Doble talks about, that we talk about in this program, psychic

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change took place that night and it has shifted, radically shifted my life and it was, I went

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again with two friends actually and three clients and we were in a very nice restaurant

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in Beverly Hills and eating and drinking and I still don't remember to this day how I left

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the place and how I got to my car, I had a brand new Lexus RX 300, they were still new

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at that time in 99 and I only had about maybe 1800 miles on it, it was still brand new,

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I rekt that total the damn thing which is really a shame but I got into that car and

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began vibing and on which the boulevard was bombed from Beverly Hills heading to the 405

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in Westwood and somehow I ran into the entrance, a concrete barrier entrance to construction

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trucks on Westwood boulevard near Kelton on one of the streets of Alcoma, head on at probably

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about 55 miles per hour, it was late at night, it was about 11 o'clock at night and I just

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rammed into it and when I came through, the bags had already inflated and thank goodness

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I had the side bags and all that stuff but still I had glass all over my face and all

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over my scalp you know which for weeks after, I would do this and pick up a piece of glass

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from my head and I had facial lacerations and my chest was really in bad shape, it was

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just from the inflation of the of the airbags and when I came across the street, sitting

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on the curb on the south side of Westwood boulevard, looking at my car burning, it was

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in flames and the fire engines were there, there were two or three fire engines and they

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were dozing it with foam to put out the fires and a police, a motorcycle police officer

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came by and asked me if it was my car, I said yes and he asked me questions, he asked me

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if I had been drinking and I said yeah, I had dinner and I had drinks with my dinner

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and stuff, he said I was very cooperative, I remember all the stuff I know because I

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read the police report about 50 times, I wasn't really there, I was I was really in a complete

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daze at that time, I was in a very serious blackout and from the trauma, from the shock

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of the accident, I was totally wiped out but so he handcuffed me and he had me sit down

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and then a patrol car came with a male and a female that threw me in the back seat of

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that car after lecturing me on something and they were driving the windows, it was nice

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and warm that night, fairly balmy actually and I remember to this day how the wind was

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hitting the back of my earlobes, you know, as the car was driving and I didn't know if

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they were driving east, west, north or south, nothing, I just know that this car was moving

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but in the back seat of that car, in that condition in which I was, my hands had cuffed

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behind me and being wet from the waist down, I had, as a result of drinking, lost control

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of my blood movement for years, my poor wife had to wash my pants literally every day,

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almost except on weekends because of that and I still, in that condition, I was overcome

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with an incredible sensation of lightness, of freedom and I was overcome with the feeling

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that things are going to be good in the immediate future, things are going to be different but

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things are going to be good, this was really a felt experience, I mean, I felt it to my

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bones and it was, I was overcome with a sense of joy, a sense of peace that had overcome

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me and it's a peace that is not the result of a conditional ceasefire or a temporary

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cessation of hostilities, it was really peace as in total armistice, the war is over and

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I lost obviously that the war is over and a new era, a new age is starting in my life,

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a new age, a new chapter in my life is about to start, this did not involve, thank goodness,

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any part of my frontal cortex where the executive decisions are made, where the ego dwells,

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where willpower comes into play, it was really at the bottom of the brain, most likely, most

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likely I think, the amygdala, the flight or fight era or area of the brain, the reptilian

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part that deals with basics, the one that makes me duck, when a rocket coming to hit

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me without measuring the speed or the distance, it's just instinctive reaction to survival

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and I personally believe it was survival instinct that essentially lived consciously in every

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cell of my body, my blood, my brain, my liver, my kidney, my heart, every part of it was

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screaming, you're killing us, you bastard, stop it, we can't go on with this, so the

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decision was being made really at a visceral level, at a molecular level, the decision

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to opt for life as opposed to suicide which I was committing with every glass I paid for,

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every bottle I bought in, I was committing suicide and essentially without knowing it

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because the ego was feeling that this time survived anything, jumped in long before the

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ego could react or could take mastery of the brain and make decisions and I think that

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is personally, is the psychic change that dwelled within me at that moment, there's

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a lady in AA that used to say that with unconditional surrender there goes the obsession to drink,

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that once the alcoholic surrenders unconditionally and says no more, I'm done, then the desire

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or the obsession to drink lifts the body of the alcoholic and lifts the mind of the alcoholic

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permanently, it has left mind for certain and I believe that moment, it has left mind

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and I've never felt the desire to drink again as a result of that experience which again

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is a felt experience, pre-reflective, that did not involve any kind of rational thinking

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or logical thinking, it was felt and it was coming in from a lot of my friends who are

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believers or religious people, tell me that's the grace of God that touched you in the vaccines

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of that God, whatever we call it, it doesn't really matter whether it's survival instinct

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of the grace of God or nature, we're essentially sort of willing and deciding for itself that

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life is better than death and that life is better than suicide and that's what happened,

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I felt that it never felt like drinking, I felt like killing people and myself, I never

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felt like drinking from that data.

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Now the next morning when I came to, when I woke up and they took me to the Venice Police

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Station or Venice Boulevard near Culver City, they, when I woke up the next morning, my

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first, I realised what had happened, my first thought is why the heck did I take an officer,

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I should have taken support, I should have taken Olympic, I should have taken Pico or

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something, you know just crazy alcoholic denial, denial at work as if I had taken Pico, I wouldn't

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be an alcoholic, I mean it's a non-sequitur, it makes no sense whatsoever, drunk as drunk

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as drunk, anyway I was sentenced to a bunch of things, I'll never forget what Adrian,

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my attorney, told me, this guy was really fantastic, you know he was my drinking buddy

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and I mean I wouldn't call him an alcoholic, he didn't have anyone but he drank quite a

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bit, but he was very successful too and he told me in the West LA courthouse, there used

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to be a courthouse in West LA near Purdue, he said Ralph, you know, this attorney, city

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attorney, he said I think she has nails for breakfast, she was really mean and there had

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been a case, it was made the news all over the country about a judge who went lenient

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on a drunk driver and that drunk driver went ahead and killed a family of four and they

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went all over, you know, everybody turned against the judge for having gone lenient

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on that drunk driver and so that was right before my case came up and it scared the heck

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out of me, I said typical alcoholic thinking, you know, self-centered, why are the four

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of the universe inspiring to screw me over, the whole world is confined to my poor me,

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poor me and so Adrian told me Ralph, I said I'm so sorry, she's really mean and she has

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your rap sheet, she has everything, all of the unsafe lane change, the reckless driving,

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the wet reckless, all the DUIs, all of them on her hands, she got about eight of them

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and he said they're not going to go easy on you but he said it's going to give you plenty

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of time to sit down and think about your love, think about yourself and he said and you got

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to find out that alcohol really is but a symptom of the problem, that the problem goes much

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deeper than that, now here is the son of a gun, Ukrainian, Canadian, American lawyer,

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Phil Tivich, you know, telling me that that stuff that Bill W and the other hundred men

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and women discovered in 1939 from drinking and this guy, you know, he nailed it, you

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know, came to find out, you know, actually after he died that he had gone to University

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of Santa Monica, it's a psychological school, he got his PhD in psychology and has been

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working with people who are in trouble, doing lots of fantastic work, you know, and he was

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a member of SRF, self-realization fellowship and had a Buddhist memorial, he was a fantastic

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guy, so that's what Adrian told me, he says, you know, your problem is not the bottle,

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the bottle is a better symptom of your problem, so I was sentenced to a bunch of stuff including

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so I did lots of community service, did lots of work in lieu of jail and I worked, you

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know, for about 60 days, literally every single day, then I had about I think 380 hours of

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community service, which I did, you know, gladly and I finished those, but I was also

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sentenced to face-to-face and group meetings of drug and alcohol treatment and I was sentenced

24:11

to 18 months of Alcoholics Anonymous and had to get the court card signed at a probation

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officer here down in Van Nuys that I had to turn the papers over to, I had a guy called

24:24

Chris at this AKB school, he was, he said bring them over, I'll take them there to the

24:32

Van Nuys court, they were right next door and I began and he asked me one time, this

24:37

Chris guy, he says Raf, you haven't been turning in your AA meeting card, I said I'll do that

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at the end, he said at the end of what, he said, you know, don't you know what the court

24:47

order says, I told him when I was there, I was in court when the judge sentenced me,

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he said I didn't ask that, did you read your court order, I said no, so he pulled it, he

24:56

had it there and there it is, he said that the day that I was discharged from the county

25:00

jail from the Twin Towers, I was supposed to go straight and start attending AA meetings,

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so he gave me a meeting book and he circled a meeting, he says this is on your way home,

25:11

you start going there and bring me the court card signed here, it was a nest and the nest,

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I had moved at that time to Roscoe and Louisa and so I figured I'll go there and you know,

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it's far away from Beverly Hills and from my customer base, I don't think any of my

25:28

clients would be there, so I walked in there and I saw a bunch of, you know, folks with

25:37

swastikas tattooed on their necks and lots of chains hanging on the side and lots of

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torn clothes and those were the ladies, you know, it's amazing, so you know, as a very

25:51

very shallow alcoholic, you know, deep inside of which is shallow, I judge the book by its

25:58

cover, I assume that simply because they look that way, they were not like the folks at

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the Polo Lounge or at, you know, whatever, that there must be very tough than this and

26:09

that and but as it turned out, those were some of the nicest, kindest, gentlest and

26:15

most trustworthy people I have ever come across in my life, people who had integrity deep

26:23

inside their heart, who had honesty and who had gentleness and kindness all over them,

26:31

they remember one guy, Bob M, he used to man the coffee counter and really wonderful Vietnam

26:40

veteran, he had many years at that time, in 99, he had probably 20 years over and which

26:45

was like an eternity for me and he told me, asked me if I could help with this lady who

26:53

had some leg problems, she said can you please pick her up and he gave you the address, she

26:57

lives on Osa, she passed away many years ago, the poor soldier, he said can you please pick

27:01

her up and bring her to the meeting on your way in, you said she comes from the other

27:05

side of Milan, you know, on your way in, stop by there, pick her up and bring her, so I

27:09

began to bring her and she became a very kind friend, a very kind elderly woman, very very

27:14

smart and old wobbly rebel, rebel rouser, you know, used to be a dancer when she was

27:19

young in New York and she was really fun and she very catholic in her training and I'm

27:28

totally, I've been since I was 15 or 16, I closed the book on that subject, you know,

27:34

but she used to hand me all kinds of literature, books that she used to read about, you know,

27:40

which is really nice, it's wonderful stuff. Anyway, one time I told her that this AA stuff

27:45

is not working for me, I've been coming here for 90 days and, you know, it's just not my

27:52

cup of tea and this requires you believing in a God and holding hands and going to Lord's

27:58

prayer and stuff, I said, that's, you know, for her. She said, I noticed you haven't raised

28:04

your hand as an alcoholic in the meetings when they ask for newcomers and you haven't

28:10

taken any chips, you said you haven't drank for 90 days, but yeah, and so I said, so what?

28:17

She said, well, I'll tell you what your problem is because I was really beside myself, I was

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driving without a license, mind you. Yeah, yeah, which I don't recommend to anybody,

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it's really very, very bad idea, but I did it, which is part of the insanity, really

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the stupidity, but also the insanity. She said, Ralph, you have a twin brother living

28:38

inside you, his name is Ralph, but he knows he's an alcoholic and you, Mr. Ralph, who's

28:43

talking to me now, who is driving this car, you're denying him his medicine, he wants

28:48

his drink and you're refusing to give him his drink. She said, one of two things happens

28:54

to alcoholics when they are in that predicament. He says they will either pick up and drink

29:00

and she said, for people like us to drink is to die or they will commit, they will kill

29:05

themselves. And she said, most people don't kill themselves, most people just go and get

29:09

drunk. And so she said, so I thought, so what's the solution? You said the solution is the

29:13

steps. I said, well, what steps are you talking about? I've heard them at least a hundred

29:19

times in those 90 days. I'll be going to meetings. I read in chapter five, every time they're

29:25

all 12 steps, plus they're all over the wall of the otherness of the Alano club. And she

29:31

said, they're right there. Oops, five minutes. Thank you. She said, take the steps and you'll

29:39

be set free. You'll be free from that. She said, that's the solution. Then you can live

29:43

your life calmly. And it's really amazing how easy it was. You know, I kept thinking

29:51

about it that day. I didn't do anything, but a couple of days after, I made sure Jean wasn't

29:56

there to see me raise my hand and I raised my hand as an alcoholic. And I jumped in with

30:05

both feet, both feet. I took commitments in every meeting I attended. I began to attend

30:10

meetings in Santa Monica, in West LA, in Beverly Hills, in China, Koreatown, all over the place.

30:17

Cause I worked on the other side of Mala and that was area five, which is area 93. So I

30:22

took commitments. I began going to all kinds of meetings and began taking the work on my

30:28

sobriety seriously. One of the things that I heard in AA, which I really believed to

30:33

begin with since I was a kid, is that a person's morality or a person's consciousness is a

30:40

reflection of his lifestyle and not vice versa. So it is whatever I do, that's what's going

30:45

to shape my thinking. It's not that my thinking will shape what I'm doing. And AA will say,

30:51

you can live your life into a sober way of thinking. You cannot think your life into

30:56

a sober way of living. And that's really essentially an old rule in sociology that was

31:02

discovered way back in the 19th century, that a person's social being determines his consciousness

31:10

and not vice versa. And putting the world on its feet rather than having a standing

31:17

on its head. And to me, AA is a plan of action and it has been from day one. It is a lot

31:23

more fun when that plan of action is believed. In other words, if I conform my action with

31:29

my core beliefs, then life becomes easier. I don't have to live in cognitive dissonance

31:36

requiring therapy and medication or booze or whatever in order to live life normally.

31:43

And AA offers a plethora of activities for people who are alcoholic and who want to live

31:50

a useful life, to become a true productive member of society, to turn my life as an instrument

31:59

of kindness, an instrument of health, an instrument of guidance and carrying the first step message.

32:09

That's part of what it's all about. So I began going on panels and then had a panel of my

32:13

own. But whenever a panel member is missing and a friend of mine who has a panel calls

32:19

me and say, Ralph, I need an extra buddy. Can you come over? I always say yes unless

32:26

I have a family obligation or something. But I jump and show up because it saves lives

32:32

starting with my work. But it really saves lives. I'll never forget some incidents that

32:37

I went from time I was a GSR of a meeting in District 11 in Area 5 and we had a meeting

32:43

on Saturday in Santa Monica. We had a fellow Class B alcoholic from I think from Colorado

32:52

or Utah. He told us a story in that meeting about something that he did, he himself did.

32:59

Sent at the GSR and then New York sent him to an Eastern Bloc country. This is before

33:08

1989, before the fall of the Berlin Wall. So he had to go there. It was supposed to

33:13

meet the lady who is a translator. She translated the first 164 pages of the big book from English

33:22

to her native language. So they go, thank you very much. And he said he showed up in

33:29

this country. I forgot whether it was Estonia or Lithuania or some place. But he showed

33:35

up there and he met her and she told him, I'll come back tomorrow. We'll have lunch

33:40

on the ground floor of this hotel and then bring the manuscript with me. And so next

33:45

day she shows up and she has three or four hundred pages of the pipe material. And it's

33:52

164 pages of values and it's typed in double spaced and so on. And she said, which is the

33:57

whole book? So I said, thank you very much. He put it in a folder and he gave her an envelope

34:03

containing a thousand dollars or two thousand whatever the New York office gave him to give

34:08

her. And she said, no, thank you. I can't accept the payment. He says, well, you have

34:12

to accept the payment. She did the work. He says, no, I've been already paid here. He

34:17

says, how? Who paid you? She said, Ralph, he said, I live with my sister and her husband

34:22

is a drunk. He comes home and beats her every day. He fights with her and brings his body

34:27

to get drunk and sometimes he slaps her. She said one time while I was at school, she had

34:32

a high school teacher. And she said, while I was at school, he came home and he found

34:36

the manuscript on the desk and he was reading it. When I came home, he jumped on me. He

34:42

says, you're writing a book about me being a blind person. And he said, he almost told

34:46

me. She told him, no, I'm not. I'm actually translating an American book into English

34:53

and into our language. And I said, he didn't play that. She showed him the big book and

34:57

he understood. And she said, as a result of having read all you read is the doctor's opinion.

35:02

And that's what she translated. And Bob, I mean, the doctor, not not, Bill W. story.

35:09

And she said, as a result of reading those two things, and then he continued reading

35:13

the other, he stopped drinking and he stopped eating her sister. She would have been overpaid

35:18

by alcoholics anonymous. Thank you very much for listening to me.