36 Years Sober: Camping, Fly Fishing & Recovery Reflections

- Dr. Guthrie, alcoholic.

I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. Donnell.

It's really good to be here, had a nice drive up,

lots of traffic, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I want to thank Scotty for asking me

and doing the follow-up text and call and all that.

And actually, he texted me and said,

"Am I still doing this thing?"

But as of about 30 hours ago,

I was setting up in Stanislaus National Park.

I have a hobby, it's fly fishing,

and I'm a hardcore camper where I can drive my truck

back up in there, I don't want anybody around.

It's not that I don't like people,

I'd just rather be alone.

And I've been doing that pretty hardcore

for a year and a half now, and really, really enjoyed it.

And before I get going here,

I just want to say that my sobriety date

is May the 18th, 1986.

I've got 36 years sober.

I got sober when I was 23, and I am 59 now.

Big 6-0 is coming up.

And really what I can tell you, if you're new,

you're skinny, but when you get 36 years,

you're going to be a fat ass, that's all there is to it.

Is ass, am I borderline there?

Okay, I'm good with, well, I'm trying to define,

'cause it did say, you know, what's your language?

And I won't drop any of the major ones,

but I might, you know, do, skirt around the edges,

you know, just to keep everybody on your toes here.

Also, I wanted to know what the chant was for the meeting.

What is your chant?

- Qua. - Qua?

(laughing)

- Oh, qua, okay.

My home group is the bingo meeting,

and it's at the Half Century Club,

and it's also where they call bingo.

So when you say, "This is my home group,"

everybody says, "No!"

So that's cool.

And it's on Wednesday nights,

and any of you would be welcome.

It's an open meeting, and really, really enjoy it.

To ducktail on kind of what you were talking about,

'cause I really felt a lot of gratitude from your share,

and you know, there's been a lot of crap happened

in the last couple of years, you know?

The COVID, you know, political unrest.

I'm waiting for the locust to come.

I mean, we're almost there.

Now we got monkey pox, I mean, gee, mini Christmas.

But the disconnection from the meetings,

and I'm a computer guy, all right, I am.

I'm an IT guy, and I'm one of the dot-com guys

that came out of the 2000s, and very fortunate.

I'm not, I went to five colleges, no degree.

Yeah, but I had a hell of a good time.

And the thing that I keep going back to

is how much I have taken Alcoholics Anonymous,

the meetings themselves, and my service.

I do a lot of H&I.

For granted, you know, we just go,

I go into a level four yard up at CMC.

It's a California men's colony.

Sounds like a nice place, doesn't it?

California men's colony.

I come and relax for about 30 years, you know?

And it is a gated community.

You will have full meals three times a day, you know?

But it's not a nice place.

But the meeting there, it's called the Big Four Fellowship,

and it's really awesome.

And oh my, I really missed going in and seeing the fellows.

I missed going to meetings.

I missed just all the interaction with you crazy bastards.

You know what I mean?

Is bastards a cuss word?

Am I borderline?

Okay, good, man, perfect.

We are getting there, man, all right.

And you know, that's the problem with Alcoholics Anonymous

is that it's full of alcoholics.

But it is our greatest asset too, you know,

that we are all have issues, you know?

And so my issue is I am extremely self-centered.

And I also, my normal position with my higher power

is to lean away, just like, oh.

I was at, I live in Lompoc.

I don't know if anybody knows where Lompoc is at.

Oh, you guys are geographically sound, all right.

But I like to tell people,

it's between Santa Barbara and Pismo Beach.

It's true, it is.

But it's really like Bakersfield.

And if you're from Bakersfield, I'm sorry.

It's like Oildale, yeah, Oildale, yeah.

And so, but no, it's a nice city.

And I went to the little, we have a little farmer's market.

I went down there and, you know,

it was just that whole quaint thing about it's a small town.

And I really dig it.

I'm gonna go back though to this camping thing, all right.

Because there's so many things that I take for granted,

you know, and I really get in tune with it

when I'm out in the woods, all right.

And I go up to places that are, they're gnarly, all right.

I mean, I've got a truck and I'll drive four wheel drive

and I'll hike in and I'm a trout guy.

You know, I'm fly fishermen.

And lately I've been chasing golden trout

and they're only at places above 10,000 feet.

So, and I'm fat and I'm old, okay.

And so to get up there, I can't breathe.

I can, you know, and why am I doing this?

And then you hook one and I'm also a catch and release guy.

I am a killer, you know, I mean, I'm a hunter too,

but the trout, I just, I don't know what it is.

I catch them, I bless them

and I send them on their way back to the waters.

And here's the thing, when I get home,

I realize like how important a flushing toilet is.

You know, really it's kind of a big deal.

If you don't, you know, if you spend five, six days

without one, yeah, it's hardcore.

And you can imagine talking shovel and you know, it's,

and then the whole, like I made lunch

and I went over and I turned the water on,

put it in the pan, turned my stove on, put it on the stove,

boiled some water, you know, it's just like, wow,

the little things, you know, and then my wife,

oh man, I love her.

And that's the hardest part about going away is I miss her.

And I tend to like think, oh man,

I really want to go home and be with her.

But then when I'm home, I'm like,

God, I really want to go fishing, you know.

I will say this.

My wife is, she's a teacher, fourth grade,

and she has surrendered to my fishing, which is cool.

I'm glad I finally beat her in a state of willingness.

And she, she helped me pack last time.

And I thought I got in the truck.

I leave at four in the morning.

So I drive a long way away.

And, and I thought, oh, it was really cool.

What was it?

I mean, she helped me pack.

What's she trying to say?

Does she want to get rid of me or was she really helping me?

You know, that's,

that's the kind of crap that goes around in my mind.

And, and it's, it's when I get, get home, I see my wife.

We miss each other.

We love each other.

Bed is soft.

It's warm.

All of the stuff that I take for granted.

And it's kind of like this thing with,

I understand I did a lot of Zoom.

I Zoom, I'm a Zooming fool.

I did so much of it.

I can't do it anymore.

I feel like I'm talking to myself, which you know what?

I am.

I'm in my office.

I'm got the Zoom meeting on.

I'm talking to myself and I'm making jokes.

And you know what?

I don't want anyone laughing.

You know?

Cause you can't hear anybody.

I want some reaction, you know?

So, so just this taking,

having some gratitude just to be at a live meeting.

And if you're Zooming, too bad.

You should be here.

No, you don't want to get the monkey box.

All right.

That's the thing.

Cause there's, it's rampant in this room.

I can just feel it's all over me.

All right.

So I, now that I've burned about 20 minutes of time here,

I will talk about drinking.

And my dad was in the air and,

and so pretty much made us all in the air force.

Cause we moved around a lot,

but we actually lived and were stationed at Vandenberg,

which is an air force base in Lompoc.

It's now a space force base, big joke in town,

but still pretty good.

And the, so, and what was,

and we were also a part of, my mom is very religious.

So we went to Catholic church.

I went to Catholic school and loved it.

I loved all the bells and the smells and all that stuff.

But what was going on at home was,

my father was molesting my sister and I.

And I don't know when it began.

I think I really have tried to remember back.

I know it was before I was four.

That's my earliest memory.

So it didn't make me alcoholic.

It just made me weird.

You know what I mean?

I was really messed up.

And here's how the mess up was.

I didn't trust anybody.

I had a deep distrust of all male authority figures.

And then later on it just pretty much everybody.

And also I blame my dad for all my problems.

And cause I could never take responsibility

for any of my actions.

Now we had moved.

And at this time we were probably 13 years old.

We're in Wichita, Kansas, bummer dude.

All right, that's it.

When they have the meeting chant there, it's like bummer.

You know, I'm a Wichita, Kansas bummer.

Anyway, and we were at McConnell Air Force base.

My grandmother was sick with cancer

and she'd been sick with cancer for a while.

It was always, she was always on her death bed

and then she'd come make a comeback.

I mean, she was strong.

But the thing about going over to grandma's house is,

one time I went into the bathroom, you know,

cause you know, you gotta pee in, I said pee, oh.

And I went to the bathroom and I opened up the medicine cab

and I figure everybody else does that because you know I do.

And I opened it up and it was like, oh,

there was light emanating from back behind

all the rows of pills in there, you know.

And I didn't know what they were.

And, but I reached up and shook out a couple

and swallowed them.

Like, I mean, sometimes I just fall asleep.

Sometimes they're, you know,

and sometimes they're like, oh man, wow.

One time I took some stuff and I piss blood for a week.

Now that will freak you out.

You're like, whoa, that is not good, right?

But the downside of that is you don't even get a buzz on it.

I don't mind pissing a little blood if I'm gonna get high,

but I didn't even get a buzz.

They were blood thinners, that's what it does, you know.

And so don't take those, right?

So finally I got wise and I started reading the labels.

You know, it's a don't mix with alcohol.

That's a keeper, you know.

Don't use while operating heavy machinery.

Oh yeah, that's a winner right there.

Where's the dump truck, you know?

And so, and that's kind of like how I got started.

I just, I started on the pills.

Sorry, dude had told me when I was 12,

dude, don't take those pills.

You won't be able to share as a pure alcoholic

in an AA meeting.

I would have taken them anyway, sorry.

And later on, just drinking for me was a constant.

And I never saw it as a problem.

I mean, I got drunk and I would think about drinking.

I would, I remember eighth grade,

there was a party at a girl and I got invited

to this girl's house and they're gonna be drinking.

And they told me on a Tuesday,

that party was gonna be on a Saturday.

I hadn't taken a drink yet, but that whole Wednesday,

Thursday, Friday, Saturday, all I thought about was,

oh, I am gonna get this man, you know.

And I did, and I don't remember the party at all.

I do remember them telling me that I was never welcome

back there again.

And it was cool.

I didn't like them anyway, so as things progressed,

I also was a cross country runner, I ran track.

I know, it's hard to believe, but seriously, I did.

I ran a 418 mile in high school,

enough to get a college scholarship.

It was pretty cool.

And I was always at war with myself over drinking.

And I love smoking weed.

I can't believe this crap is legal right now.

Where I drive, it's like, Indica, Buds, you know,

all the signs, I'm like, really?

Thanks God, you know.

But I guess alcohol is legal, so whatever.

But it's just the weed thing.

It just blows my mind away, you know.

And so I'm at this war with myself.

Don't do it.

And running produced endorphins, you know.

I ran long distance, like 10, 15 miles a day.

So when you run, you get high off of it.

And I was drinking, you know, when I could.

And the other thing about being a runner,

oh, look, standing ovation.

The other thing about being a runner is

you can get mashed on a couple beers.

I mean, my body fat was like 2% or 3%.

It's probably 40 right now, but you know,

I look like the Buddha, all right.

My wife doesn't know whether to make love to me

or to pray to me, you know, so it's cool.

Is this even AA anymore?

But all right, we're gonna get there.

So I got injured my sophomore year in college.

And that's when things really,

when I surrendered to the disease,

and I say surrender to disease, not to Alcoholics Anonymous,

I didn't even wanna have anything to do with stopping.

I just gave up.

I just started drinking and using full on.

I didn't care.

Of course, I got kicked out.

I managed to get, because of my times,

I managed to get another scholarship to another college

and never ran one yard at that school,

but I melted for a year.

And of course got kicked out of there.

And you know, just good times.

I don't know why I ever quit.

And then I started selling drugs.

That was my way.

My parents didn't have a lot of money.

And my mom would tell people,

"He's studying to become a pharmacist."

Yeah, okay, yeah.

And so, you know, and then a guy called me and said,

"Bring everything you got."

And I was living, I was going to SMSU in Springfield,

Missouri, and drove my Galaxy 500.

I played in a punk rock band.

I probably should mention that.

There was that little thing right there.

You probably heard of this.

Anorexic Sacrifice.

No, no, we suck, but it was punk rock.

It didn't matter.

So I had the anarchy mobile, we called it,

'cause it had an anarchy sign spray painted on the side.

It was really like driving a felony.

And I've got all these drugs in there and I'm driving up

and I get to the motel up in St. Louis and we wait and wait.

By this time, I'm strung out on these things

called Dilaudids.

They're basically a narcotic that give

to stage four cancer patients.

Like my grandmother needed them,

but I thought I needed them more.

And I had a lot of pain to kill.

I had a lot of anger.

And that was the thing that kind of took the edge off.

I didn't really want to die,

but I wanted to be right up on the edge of it.

Kind of looking over like, what's it like?

And so I pull in, I wait for the money guy to get there

and he gets there and it was a fiasco

and the doors come crashing down.

I took a big wad of cash from the guy

and there's cops and big badges, the DEA badges.

And apparently they've been watching me for a while

and I should have done Tweak

because then I would have been so paranoid.

I would have seen him watching me, but I didn't.

- You are a hard problem.

- And I got thrown in County jail there, Cahokia.

And they told me I was going to do 20 years to life.

And I got to tell you, I didn't stop then.

You know, most people, maybe some people, I didn't.

I mean, it was an impediment for a while.

And I just thought when you get caught up

in the court system, I don't know how many people

are in the court system.

It's a really fun process.

It's hard to get out of, it is.

And so I had this case and nobody would talk to me

and I had to get a regular job.

And then I crashed, I was delivering beauty supplies,

really high quality job.

And I crashed the car and it was really demoralizing.

Like I did not, I could not stop and I could not keep going.

I was at that jumping off point that they talk about.

And I had all this hatred and weirdness from this years

and years of sexual abuse from my dad.

And you know, I'll tell you this thing about the abuse

of my dad, I did two, four steps and never mentioned it.

It was a take to the grave thing.

It wasn't until I got a really hardcore sponsor,

one of those PG guys, Clint Hodges,

who really saved my life.

And I ended up testifying and a couple of guys went to jail

and they relocated me and I moved out to California.

And I lived here before, but it had been years.

And so I had that guilt about being a rat and I mean,

it was just the self hate was so deep and I got a sponsor.

I moved to Long Beach, got a sponsor there

and called up the hotline.

They came and picked me up and went to my first meeting.

I liked you guys right away.

It was when meetings were good, when you could smoke in them.

So it was like a layer of smoke and the smell of coffee

and everybody laughing and I'm just miserable, you know?

And then people started to share and one person said,

they tried to kill themselves and everybody laughed.

I'm like, what is wrong with you people?

That guy tried to kill himself, man.

And I got this sponsor and he was a punk rock guy

and played in this band called Secret Hate.

I was like, I love that name.

And I got up to the eight step with him

and 'cause I always felt like the steps were something

like the mile run.

When he used to run the mile, I would time the quarters.

That's how long ago when they actually ran the mile.

Now it's a 1500 meters, I know, whatever.

It's an American dammit, not meters, it's miles.

And so I would time the quarters

and I knew what my time was gonna be off the quarter speed.

And so I felt like the steps were like that.

I had to race to get to the end and step 12, finish line.

I don't know what I was expecting when I got there.

You know, they said I was gonna be spiritually fit.

You know, I was gonna have all these great promises

were gonna happen and it didn't really happen for me

because I raced through it.

But the first time with Marty, we got to the eight step

and I said, okay, what do I do?

It's like, well, I haven't made it that far yet.

I was trying to work him and stay ahead of you.

I'm like, what?

So it never dawned on me to ask him

if he had worked all the steps.

So that's probably something if you're nude,

maybe ask the person if you work them all, you know?

And so he said, you need to go make amends

to your mom and dad.

I was like, all right, all right, probably.

You're probably right.

You know, and they were living in Milwaukee

and I flew out there and I got into the,

they were living in a condo and I went in there

and it really went sideways.

I looked at my dad and I'm on this ninth step

and I know that I, but I feel like he owes me the amends

and all the anger built up and all the hatred

and F bombs were dropped and I was pushed out the door

and told never to come back again.

I said, you can bet your butt

I will never come back here again.

And my mom's crying and I got in the car

and I went back to the airport and I'm angry.

And that's what I call a successful amends.

You know what I mean?

So come on, that was a joke.

I know, it was a little bit slow.

All right, thank you.

It was a successful amends in NA.

No, I'm just kidding.

(mumbles)

I basically didn't talk to them for 10 years.

I stayed sober.

I was the guy you don't want on your committee.

I was volunteering for everything

'cause I was scared to death I was gonna relapse.

And like, we need somebody to be the GSR, I'll do it.

Oh no, Pat, somebody else, give somebody else a chance.

I've never done it before.

No, no, it's good.

And anyway, so I had probably about 11 years sober

and three people that in my little class of 86 relapsed

and I knew I was next, I just knew it.

And so I started talking to some people and they said,

you should check out this meeting, West LA Men's Stag.

I'm like, really drive all the way up there?

'Cause I was living in Long Beach.

All right, I did.

And that's where I met Clint.

And I asked him to be my sponsor against everybody.

He said, dude, don't ask that guy.

He's not the guy for you.

'Cause I'm like a punk rock dude, you know,

and an anarchist and basically a rule breaker, you know?

And defiant, that's the thing, defiance.

Ooh, that is a defect that just really killed me.

And, but one day we were at his law office.

He was a lawyer with an R and he, I made a lawyer joke

and he did not appreciate it for me.

I don't know if anybody, did anybody know Clint?

Okay, yeah.

You don't want to make lawyer jokes.

He was very sensitive about that.

And he started to yell at me that I had no right

to make that joke.

And I probably don't have any friends

because my sarcasm is always biting

and nobody wants to be around you.

And I'm like, oh man.

And you know what?

People are going to be happy when you're dead.

They're going to be glad.

Classic Clint, man, I love that guy.

And he said, there is one chance,

but I just don't think you're going to be willing.

I said, what is it?

I'll do it.

What is it?

And he goes, would you be willing?

Tell me what it is.

He goes, just would you be willing?

So this is a sponsored trip.

Anybody that's new in here, don't fall for it, okay?

Get the info before you commit to it.

And I said, okay, I'm willing.

He goes, you need to forgive your dad.

I was like, what has he got to do with it?

And he looked at me with those steely gray eyes

and said, oh, I think you know.

And he goes, if you can't do that,

I can't sponsor you anymore.

I'm not going to be another one

of the failed male authority figures in your life.

And I said, okay.

He goes, okay, here's what you're going to do.

You're going to pray for the willingness

for the next three weeks,

because we're going to have a retreat.

And I want you to be there for the forgiveness exercise.

Pray for the next three weeks

for the willingness to forgive your dad.

Pray to your nine bolt battery, God,

because that's about the juice

you're pulling off that higher power.

And I thought, what?

Now get the hell out of here.

And I want to, did he just mock my God?

You know, it's a 12 volt, at least it's not nine volt.

But, and I did, I prayed for the next three weeks.

And it was at the Mary Joseph Retreat Center

in Palo Verde, California.

I can't get away from the Catholics.

They're everywhere.

And he pulls out this book from Emmett Fox.

And in the back of this book called Sermon on the Mouth

is the breakdown of the Our Father.

And the Our Father, the section says,

forgive us our trespasses

as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Emmett wrote like seven pages on this.

He had a lot of free time,

because this was back in the thirties.

Didn't have iPhones or anything like that.

So he wrote it out.

And in it, it sounds something like this.

I fully and freely forgive the whole business.

And so Clint starts to repeat this.

And there's about 20 of us in there.

And there's a candle burning.

The lights are off.

It's like, we're going to have a seance

and bring back Bill Wilson or something, I don't know.

But he starts like, I fully and freely forgive

the whole business.

And I felt a weight lift off my shoulder physically.

Like, and then is there anybody else?

Okay, I'm fully and freely forgive the whole business.

Is there anybody else?

And I start going through this list

because I really set myself up to be a victim

in every relationship I had.

All of them, girlfriends, principals, coaches,

all of them, DEA, all that, man.

And I'm letting everybody off the hook.

You know who's getting free?

Me, I'm the one getting free.

And I feel like my ass isn't even touching the chair anymore.

I feel like I'm floating.

I'm like at some Christian camp

and I've just found Jesus or something.

I'm just like, oh God, this is it.

(laughing)

That's why I never went off the hook.

And by this time, everybody else is gone.

It's Clint and I, knee to knee.

He's like, Patrick, this is the time.

Let it go.

Is there anybody else or anything else you want to forgive?

I thought, okay, I want to forgive God.

I want to forgive the God that was,

when I was in fourth grade at mass one morning,

we went to mass every day at the math school

and priest said, bring all your problems to God

and he'll solve them.

Something like that.

That's how I interpreted it.

Then I don't give God a chance.

Dear God, please make it stop, please.

It got worse, I thought.

And that was really my break with higher power,

my break with God, that enter into utter loneliness,

the disconnection from anything other than myself.

And that's really what killed me.

And so I'm, all right, I want to forgive that God.

I fully and freely forgive.

Chuck Chamberlain writes in a new pair of glasses

about the sunlight of the spirit.

And Chuck says that the sunlight is always there,

but we have our curtains closed.

And for me, I had my curtains closed

and tinfoil on the windows for the tweakers in here, right?

I mean, there was no light getting in that.

And when I said that prayer,

what happened was the curtains opened

and the tinfoil got ripped off.

And I felt that power,

power that I had never felt before.

I had given myself to it and I just was like,

I can't adequately express it in words.

I will just tell you that it was an experience

that happened a long time ago and it still affects me.

I still have that experience

of this closeness with my higher power.

And the next day he told me to call my mom.

It was Mother's Day.

I hadn't talked to her in 10 years

and I reached out the phone.

I picked it up, called my mom and she answered

and I said, "Mom, it's Patrick."

And she started crying.

"Oh, Patrick, are you okay?

I've been so worried about you."

"I'm fine, mom.

I called to wish you a happy Mother's Day."

"Oh, I've missed you so much.

I got to tell you, I wanted to call my mom."

I did.

I had tried before this,

but every time I went to pick up the phone,

I was in this mental thing where if she says this,

I'm going to say this.

And if she puts dad on, that's it.

I never pick up the phone.

It isn't the amends.

Don't get me.

This is not the amends.

This is a phone call.

I mean, this is like a huge bridge

that I had crossed to make the phone call.

And her reaction and her tears just broke my heart.

It did.

And I realized what I had done, the depth of my anger.

And I got home from the retreat

and I got married when I was 35

and we had been trying to have kids.

And it was, my wife's a couple of years old

and which I always tell in front of her,

she appreciates that.

And she had a couple of miscarriages and we just gave up.

We just thought, it's not going to happen for us.

All right.

When I got home, my wife said,

"I've got some news for you.

You need to sit down."

I'm like, "Oh shit, she's leaving me.

I know it.

I knew it, man.

That's where I go right there.

I'm going to be...

(laughing)

And she's like, "I'm pregnant."

I'm like, "Oh, that's great."

And she goes, "No, it's not.

I can't do it again."

I go, "This one's going to go through."

And she goes, "How can you be so sure?"

I go, "Because I'm not afraid."

And she's like, "Okay."

And nine months later, we're at the Lompoc Hospital.

We had moved when my wife was eight months pregnant.

And I'm at the hospital right there with the...

I don't know if you...

Dude, just stay in the waiting room.

All right, dudes.

If you haven't done this, don't go in there.

It's really handy.

It's, oh my God, the stirrups and that thing.

And it's like, "Oh my God."

I don't know, pop and this bouncing baby bloody burrito

comes out and she looked at me

and gave me that toothless smile.

And I knew like it was just another great gift

from Alcoholics Anonymous.

It really was.

It was a gift that you guys gave me.

And she's 19 now.

I think she's got horns.

And thanks.

I took her to the father-daughter dance, all of them.

She was four all the way till she was 12

when she said, "Dad, it's not cool."

Went to all of her tennis matches.

Oh my God, that was horrible.

They suck so bad.

But I mean, I showed up.

How could you do?

You show up.

But before all that,

I went and made formal amends to my mom and dad.

And Clint gave me very specific directions

to stick on what I did, not his things.

And I wrote it down on a three by five card,

the exact nature of my wrongs.

And then there was this thing called marching orders.

Like what can I do to make it right?

And here's what it sounded like.

I stole from you.

I disrespected you.

I never trusted you.

And what can I do to make it right?

And he said, "Just be the best father you can be to Dorothy."

So my daughter's name.

I said, "Okay."

And I went and made the amends with my mom.

They did it separately.

She said the exact same thing.

And then on the way out, my dad handed me a CD.

Not really, music?

I looked on it.

It said, "QL, Sexaholics Anonymous International Convention."

I'm like, "What?"

I put that thing in on the way back to the airport.

I had to pull over 'cause he was telling our story.

And it sounded just like alcoholism.

The regret, the remorse, the shame, the self-pity,

all of it.

And the last vestiges of the resentment

were disappeared at that moment

because I saw him as a sick man and not as a perpetrator.

And how can I value my sobriety if I can't value his?

I am so very grateful to be here tonight.

I love your hall here and the energy and the, whoa!

- Oh, thank God.

- And I just really want to thank you

and Scotty for asking me.

Thanks for letting me share.