From Hippie Roots to Spiritual Sobriety: A Gay Man's Journey

- Hey everyone, I'm an alcoholic.

Just gonna look at this occasionally for timekeeping.

If you're new, welcome to Alcoholics Anonymous.

We are happy you're here.

Even if you're not happy you're here.

I, when I was new, I was not a big fan of Alcoholics Anonymous.

But, so if you're new, welcome.

And before I get started, thank you so much, Karen,

for having me come out.

I was originally supposed to speak a couple months ago

and I had some issues with my mom.

And I'll probably talk about that, maybe,

as we progress a little bit.

You know, a gay boy talking about his mom,

what are the odds?

But, you know, I had an extra three months

to talk about the share, think about the share.

So we'll see how it rolls down.

I'm gonna talk about what it was like

and how I got sober and what it's like now.

I talk about what it's like just to form it.

In my day to day where I'm at now,

I don't really lean into what it was like.

You know, I'm a big believer in like meditation

and manifestation and focusing on the present

and the future and not oftentimes retelling

the story of my life.

So if you're new and you're, you know,

given the opportunity to share,

whether it's in any type of meeting

and you keep beating the drum of, you know,

chronic this or, you know,

the universe will provide to you exactly what you want.

That has been my experience.

And so I had to like open up like my sphere

of like spirituality and physical and like all that practice

to be, you know, to have this life

that is just like blessed beyond recognition.

So my sobriety date is March 3rd, 2014, class of 2014.

My home group is the Pacific group

and my sponsor is Tim Kay.

He's like, if you ever come and visit us on Wednesday night,

he's like the guy that bangs the guy.

And so, you know, like that's like a one example

of my ego, right?

And I had to like go to the guy that's like over there.

I was like, he must be in charge of (indistinct)

And now he's my sponsor.

He's my sponsor for about five years.

I have nine years of sobriety and I'm at Silverad

at charity fund.

So I grew up in Mesa, Arizona.

I grew up to two parents that were very much in love

and they were hippies that had transplanted themselves

from New York to Mesa, Arizona.

So we were in a Mormon community and I was like,

you know, I was like one or two Jewish kids.

So, you know, I got to do, I got to do the, you know,

the Hanukkah presentation, you know,

and I'd sure just go, well, every year and, you know,

and mom loved pills and dad loves (indistinct)

you know, because she remember and I'd say, you know,

waking up in the middle of the night

and like the cigarette smell,

smelled different than it did during the day.

And until I could not wait, I could not wait.

And mom, you know, she had this like little pill

that she would like, you know, she had scoliosis

and she would take pain pills and volume, you know,

and I just remember that sound in her purse

and her taking out a pill

and just seeing like the change of behavior, you know,

like kind of like the first drink and drug

that we've all been accustomed to,

that sense of ease and comfort that all of a sudden

makes you feel whole and makes you feel in your, you know,

in your skin until it doesn't work and then you take it out.

So I was already like agitated and uncomfortable

and like, you know, and from an early age,

I did not, was not a big fan of Hanukkah or myself.

And then at the same time, I thought like, you know,

that I was living this elated like universal experience

where I had the power to control things by, you know,

just like moving stuff and that, you know,

and I just wouldn't like do certain things.

Like I was, I was crazy.

I was in my head talking all the time,

thinking about like what you were going to say.

I was going to respond, you know, I heard this once, like,

and I totally relate to it.

It's like, never in school we're reading paragraphs.

I mean, like forward to the paragraph that I had to read

and like try to like, oh my God, I'm going to do this.

And then, you know, somebody took your paragraph.

Shit, you know, and that'll probably be the one thing

that I say that's worth it, I promise.

- You know, so I was always very functional with Seth.

My dad was also a gambler and mom was an extreme couponer.

And I loved both, right?

Like, you know, I just learned from an early age

that like, you know, you could have fun.

You could have fun in life as long as, you know,

you did what you were supposed to do.

At least that was my perception.

So I did really well in school

and I got to go to the track with dad

and I got to like extreme coupon with mom

and it was just great, right?

But I think early on, they thought that I was crazy

because they would take me to like therapists

and I would draw like pictures of like

the house burning down and everybody inside.

And I'm like outside, like, you know, like nuts.

And then, you know, and then of course that led to like,

you know, lighting fires and I would just do, you know,

whatever I could to get out of self.

So, you know, when I say that I waited till like 13

to have a drink, I mean, it was like a long time coming.

And I think the first drink that I had was,

or a sip of was like at a bar mitzvah, you know,

like my uncle's seven or scotch and something,

I don't even know.

And I was like, this is horrible.

Why would anybody drink it?

And I soon learned.

And, you know, I didn't become a daily drinker overnight.

You know, I didn't like figure that out until like later,

but I certainly unlike our first speaker,

I lost control really early and I loved losing control.

Like, you know, there was just, it was like,

all bets were off.

I did not know what was gonna happen

after I took the first drink.

And I continually, you know, like my dad passed away

before I was 15, like two days before my 15th birthday.

And at that point it was kind of all bets were off.

Like, you don't know.

And I held onto that for probably 20 years.

Like, you don't know my story.

You don't know my situation.

You don't know what I've been through.

You know, pour me, pour me, you know, pour me another drink.

And it was, and it just took off from there.

And I kept moving the line, right?

Like, so, you know, I would steal pills from mom

and, you know, and we would, you know,

we would, my mom let us drink in the house.

So we would go to Costco and get like, you know,

we were economy drinkers.

Like I earned from like a very early age,

like how to get, you know, how to get alcohol

and how to still get good grades

and navigate through all that.

You know, and it's progressive.

I just kept moving the line.

Things that I said that I wouldn't do.

I would never do that.

Just, you know, when presented the opportunity,

I would do them.

You know, it's like, I just became a taker,

an absolute taker.

You know, I would go into, you know,

would help you look for your drugs.

You know, after I did them.

I would go into open houses,

not because I was buying a house.

And I just kept moving that invisible line.

It was just, you know, one was never reached.

There was just never enough to fill that void

or that hole.

And, you know, and I felt like,

okay, well, mom's the problem.

So after I graduated college in Arizona,

I came out to California and, you know,

and that was where the freedom kind of took off.

And I was like left to my own perils and my own devices.

I got my first DUI, I think like months

after I moved out here because I loved driving drugs.

Like is it like, I know you're younger people,

you have Uber, we didn't have that.

We had taxis and you had to do the math.

How much would the taxi cost and can I drive?

And how am I going to get to the taxi?

You know, how am I going to get to the car the next day?

And, you know, and the stuff would start early on.

And then it was just like, I'm driving, I'm driving drunk.

So the amount of times that I drove drunk

is still fortunate that I have not like killed somebody

at this point.

So I got that first DUI in 2002,

right after I moved out here.

And I was like, okay, well, driving is the problem.

So, you know, and I was just really,

the way I addressed that situation

was what are the consequences?

And the consequences were, you know,

you had to do this, you have to do these classes.

And I mean, there were like,

there were really no consequences for, you know,

as I looked back, I had to go to a trustee program

and like clean some jail cells.

It was all like tolerable, it was all manageable, you know,

and drinking and drugs were the only solution that I knew.

It was the only thing that could make me feel,

it was the only thing that could make me feel better or whole.

I knew no other way.

And you know, it's like, and I think that even as I got

closer and closer to coming to these rooms,

it was like admitting that I was an alcoholic

would be the end.

Like that would be like the gig is up, you know,

because once you admit you're an alcoholic,

like, you know, you can't like go out and socially drink.

Like I knew that like coming to alcoholics anonymous

meant that you couldn't drink.

And so under no circumstance was I gonna come to you.

And I pushed it, right?

So I got my second to you, like my first to you,

I'll give you like locations for some of the people

that might remember them.

So my first one was after I knew the bartender at Dublin's

on Sunset.

And that was a fun night of Jack and Diane.

And 'cause I was conscious, I was like, you know,

I was also very weight conscious, you know,

I didn't want any calories on my alcohol.

And so, you know, until it kicked in

and then I would eat anything.

But, you know, I think that was also like a self sense

of control, like those other issues that crept in.

And then my second to you, I was at Weber's

right up the street in Reseda.

I went there for a happy hour to have like one drink, right?

And Weber's, right?

And they poured that, you know,

if you're gonna do more research, they pour heavy,

at least they used to do, they poured heavy.

So I fit right at home.

And then the third was at a Christmas party,

a work Christmas party, because I have no control.

So I will do whatever I need, wherever I need.

At that point in time, this was 2013,

I was going to a pain management doctor.

So I was on a smattering of pain pills

and uppers and downers.

And I didn't know what the drink allocation would be

at the Christmas party.

So I freaked out and brought liquor in and was on pills.

You know, and then you cut to like a couple hours later

when I crashed my car in the 101.

You know, the second one I tried to invade the police.

I did not work out well.

They were scoping the others.

But so, you know, it's interesting

because I got sober in March of 2014.

And in February of 2013,

I met a guy and it was really weird

'cause I went to his house and he had a roommate

like that lived in his room.

And I was like, this is weird, but you know,

I'm gay and you know, we'll figure this out.

He was in a sober limit.

So it was, you know, I met my now husband.

He had eight days of sobriety living in sober living

on food stamps, and this was like,

this was the love of my life, right?

He is the love of my life now,

but it just shows you like, you know,

like Eric's thinking was just not, was just not in town.

So I met him in February.

And then in December, I called him from jail.

I said that I got a DUI.

I crashed my car last night.

And I think that was kind of the center

of like me kind of starting to admit

that I was an alcoholic.

You know, I didn't get sober until March of that year.

So if you are new and you're coming to the rooms

and you're like going to the bathroom

and you know, getting what you need, I get it.

I was just here.

I was here to get the heat off.

I was just visiting.

I was gonna figure out how to like tone it down

and really took some time before I admitted

that I was an alcoholic.

I did not wanna detox in jail

'cause this time I was going to jail.

And so I was like, okay, well,

let's just slowly kind of figure this out.

Slowly kind of wind down of the stuff that I was on.

And my last joke was like the night of the Oscars.

And she's like, like, so I've already mentioned her gay,

but I would watch the Oscars and I would, you know,

talk to my mom the next day.

And I just, I remember I like blacked out, you know,

and then that was really, that was really like my MO.

It was like, it was like blackout or nothing.

I don't understand why you wouldn't,

like I don't understand why you would stop.

The only time I stopped was when we were tea, right?

You know?

And that was when I, that's when I was like, okay,

maybe we're good.

Maybe we should just stop.

That was like my decision-making.

So I, you know, I got sober in March of 2014.

It was like everyone in my sphere,

like that I had started to surround myself with

was like, Eric, you know, like for the longest time,

it was like, Eric, what's wrong with you?

What's wrong with you?

And I finally knew.

And for some reason that gives me like, you know,

a sense of ease and comfort

that I know what's wrong with me today.

You know, it's like, I love that I can come to an AA meeting

and just drop in and be like comfortable,

but it was not easy in the beginning, you know,

it took a lot of time to change.

I came in and I was, just because you had removed the drink,

it just like, my behavior was deplorable.

I was not a nice person.

I was still stealing in very early sobriety,

like stealing, like whatever I could.

Like Macy's, Ben and Beth, you told us both.

It's like, you know, like, like if it didn't happen,

if it wasn't locked down, I was like, you know,

it was trouble with me, and you know.

And don't you know what those corporations did, right?

So I'll tell you like the behavior

did not change automatically.

- I got a sponsor and I started to go to meetings,

regular meeting nights, commitments at those meetings.

And I kept myself busy, you know, like my sponsor today,

I had one sponsor when I got sober

and have since changed to Tim,

but he likes when Eric has structure

and gets to make less decisions.

I do a lot better with, you know,

I call in regularly to check in with my sponsor.

I still go to regular meetings on regular meeting nights

and I have commitments at those meetings.

And that has been like the foundation

that has carried me through my social life.

You know, the other thing that I can say is that,

I mean, I've done the steps

and the steps have like transformed my life.

You know, like the steps are like,

what gives me a sense of ease and comfort today

that I only felt that I could find from alcohol,

even when the steps were my solution today.

You know, I have two responses right now.

I love them dearly.

I hope they both make it,

but whether or not my sponsors make it,

I'm still gonna stay sober.

I'm still gonna stay sober through all this,

but you know, I love being of service to another alcoholic.

So if you don't have a sponsor, you know,

it is highly recommended that you get one

and what do you have to lose?

You know, like stop drinking, do the 12 steps,

stop like vacillating on like four or five

and just, you know, see if you feel better afterwards.

In my experience, I've seen the lights come on

in people's eyes, especially if you're making four and five.

Like it just is like the shift of like the sense

that there's another human, you know,

and it's really, you know, when you're doing four and five,

you're just sitting with another person

and walking them through, you know, your crap that you did.

And they're there just to facilitate it

and really kind of show you pattern.

And you know, and as you get further along in the steps,

it's like to not repeat those patterns.

You know, it's my sponsor today is very much in today.

In today, what are you gonna do today?

Like, I don't care who hurts you in kindergarten.

Like, you know, you are 45 years old, you know,

like what are you gonna do to be a good man today?

To be of service to, you know, to your AA community,

to your husband, to your mom, like,

'cause that's what matters.

That's all we have is today.

And we have just, you know, this moment.

You know, I'll talk about some great things

that have happened in sobriety.

So you know that I got married, right?

So my husband is still sober, thank God, if he wasn't.

If any of you know him, like we've, that would not be,

he's not a functioning alcoholic.

He is a crazy crystal meth addict

that we are thankful that he is on the side.

And we have a unique story, right?

Because he was newly sober

and I wasn't sober when we got together.

And the only reason that it kind of worked

is that we put AA first, and we both have put AA first.

And that's the only reason today that, you know,

we are at this point where we just celebrated five years

that we have a great healthy marriage, you know,

and we both sponsor people and we have a sober home

and, you know, and if you're with somebody

that's in the program, you know what you can

and can't say to them and, you know,

and so we don't tell each other to call our sponsor.

You know, we are, you just stay out of the way.

You stay out of yourself and you are nurturing

and you're compassionate and you let them run their program.

And, you know, that would be my advice for you

as far as that.

You know, I've really had some fantastic things.

Like, so when I, I've done like crazy food things

since I got sober, I was like vegan for five years.

No, I'm not.

And, you know, I'm like fasting and like crazy with that.

And I don't know what tomorrow will hold, you know,

but I love being able to, you know,

I've kind of come to peace with like those issues too.

You know, like I love myself today.

You know, I look at myself and, you know,

I start the day with this vibration

that is just like so right and so old.

And, you know, on the good days I meditate

and then, you know,

and I try to do something physical and spiritual

and then I'm, you know, and then I'm of service.

When I was 40, I was like five years sober

and I did yoga teacher trainings, which was like such a gift.

I was able to like walk through some yoga teacher trainings

and loved that.

The other physical thing I did,

and I think this has to do with like manifestation

and manifestation.

Like I entered the lottery for New York Marathon last year.

And it's like, you know, like my husband's like,

"Of course you'll get it."

You know, like, and I was like, "But it's a lottery."

Like, you know, like I was like that just,

you just don't get it.

And I got it.

And so I ran the New York Lottery last,

or the New York Marathon last year in November.

I have not quite decided what I'm going to do more.

You know, like the alcoholic in me is like,

"I want to do one of these every weekend."

Like, you know, because like, why would you start small?

Like, you know, go to the 26th, you know, it's like,

and I still will go to, to the extremes.

I mean, like I'm looking over at Karen's like monster

and I'm like, "What a good idea to have a monster

at like 7.30."

You know, like, so you still come here

and you keep learning things.

And I'm sure she'll sleep like a rock tonight, right?

- Yes.

- So anyway, I digress.

But you know, I mean, what can I say?

It's, it's been like a fantastic, you know,

a fantastic journey.

I'll tell you a little bit about,

I think I know until like 8.25.

I'll tell you an immense story that I,

that I tell sometimes.

And then I'll kind of talk about my mom right now.

So I had done like some like damage to mom.

You know, like I told you guys, I was a taker.

So when Eric needed a lawyer for his first DUI,

I needed like $10,000.

Like it was like, it was like a ton of friends, right?

You know, we had very co-dependent,

like toxic relationship.

You know, and I would steal pills from her

and you know, take money.

And I would just take, take, take, take, take.

And it was all about me, me, me.

So when I went to, I went to make an adventure

going through that direction with a sponsor.

So if you're new and you recognize that you've like

made a disarray of some relationship,

don't just go and make an amends to that.

You know, wait till it is the appropriate time

and walk through that with your sponsor.

And you know, I'll tell you that,

like I used to talk to her like three to four times a day

before I got sober and under sponsored direction,

when I first got sober,

I could talk to her once a week, like once a week.

Like I had to get sober and I had to change everything

because I was like that shit.

Like I was really crazy.

And you know, I would get on the phone with her

and I would just be like, "Oh my gosh."

You know, like she's like,

she's going off on a tangent or a tailspin

and I'm like, I'm going right there with her.

I just want to like drink.

I would just want to like, and I think, you know,

somehow you probably have those people in your life too,

when you first get sober because you know,

that's what's life.

It's like the, you know,

it's some family that hangs on and you know,

and other people that are just as crazy as you.

So I went to go make an immense to her

and this was not fair enough sober

and under sponsored direction.

And she was like, "I just want you to be happy.

I just want you to stay sober."

And I was like, "Best of men's ever."

Like, you know, I was with my first sponsor, right?

And I had moved over to Tim at some point later

and she called me one day and she goes,

"Eric, I made a list."

She was like, "And it's like, you know,

and it's an expensive list, right?"

And I'm like, "Who knew that this hippie

that took pill all the time, you know,

had such a good memory of all the money

that she had given me."

So I called Tim and I'm like, you know,

I already made this and he had cleaned up my side.

She said she didn't want anything.

And he was said to me, he goes, "You know, Eric,"

he goes, "When you needed help, she was there for you.

Why don't you have some compassion and help her out?"

And with that, my thinking changed

immediately and I started like, you know,

to give her money.

And it was like, you know, it was like the grace

of this program and the grace of God

that it just all like, you know, went on a conveyor belt

and just kind of like rolled off.

And like something new came in

and was just amazing and wonderful.

And our relationship has changed

and has never been the same since then.

You know, God has got me and my higher power has got me.

My inner being has got me today.

You know, during COVID in the middle of all of that

in April of 2020, April of 2020,

I was at my current job eight years

and somebody told me about a new job

and I went and applied for.

And then that round check came up

and in the background was like the three DUIs

and may have been some misdemeanors from Costco

because they're actually very tough to steal.

Don't try to walk out in anything with Costco.

So then it came up and I was like,

"Tim, Tim, what do I do?

"This is like, you know, my livelihood."

And he said, "Well, just," he said, "What do they want?"

And I was like, "Well, they want a lender."

He's like, "Well, just tell them who you are today."

He said, "Tell them that you're a sober man

"of Alcoholics Anonymous

"and that you, you know, that you go to regular meetings

"and you have, you know, commitments

"and you know, and that you're active in the group

"and you don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow.

"But if you keep doing what you're supposed to do today,

"the likelihood that you will remain sober

"is highly likely and that is not the person

"that you are right now."

And so I wrote that and I got the job

and I was just like, you know, it's just, you know,

it's like if you trust,

if you trust and you stay out of the results,

like it will get taken care of.

Everything will get taken care of.

You know, that has been, that has been my experience.

So this last year has been like crazy

and this is kind of like why I delayed coming

for a little bit.

So on Easter Sunday, my mom went into the hospital

and she's 80 and she got like diagnosed

with like a UTI that went septic.

And it kind of was like,

it's kind of like she was in a blackout.

So it was, you know, a little fun.

Like a little, like I remember this.

So, you know, she went to the hospital

for like a couple of weeks

and then she went into a rehab center

and she was just not lucid.

Like this is like something that is like crazy.

You don't come back from it that fast.

And so we moved her in, like, you know,

like this is the dry, alcohol-like son

is now like, you know, full circle

is now like fully taken care of his mother.

It's just, you know, miraculous.

And the only way that I could do this

was because of Alex and Alex.

You know, like if you want to think that life is crazy,

you know, move an 80 year old newcomer in

that it's not hard to say any tool

and see, you know, see how you're surviving this challenge.

So, or your marriage.

So the verdict is still out on both of those.

You know, it's getting easier,

but I have to practice a lot of like non-reaction

and a lot of compassion and a lot of nurturing.

But that really doesn't give me anything that I can't handle.

My higher power does not give me anything that I can't handle.

You guys have taught me that.

And I've talked to like, you know,

I call people from our group and they're like, you know,

and they told me how it was really going to be,

especially as she gets older and progresses.

And then I also had people that, you know,

are helping me with like getting her

the medical resources that she needs.

You know, it's like, I'm walking through this experience

to potentially help somebody else later in life.

And I think that is, you know,

a testament to whether or not you've experienced

in your past or your present.

There are people in this room that have walked through this,

you know, especially some of the turmoil

that you did when you're drinking

and they've gotten through it.

So whatever you think that you've done, you know,

all right, you know, when I did,

when I did my first step with my sponsor,

he goes, that's all, like, he's like, that's all.

And I was like, yeah, I was like, isn't that enough?

(laughs)

So the moment that you've made it up in your head

and the, you know, the beating yourself up,

I promise you it will dissipate

when you talk to another person.

We have done it, we've done worse.

We have walked through it and, you know,

and we have a sense of freedom today.

A lot of us that is unlike any type of freedom

that I have ever had.

Okay, so what can I tell you about now?

I am, so I'm like six minutes left, nine years.

I am a regular at Pacific group.

I started to go there when I was six months sober

because I was going to Wednesday night

at the university synagogue, like back in the old days.

My head was crazy and it was spun and we would get

in the car at like, you know, six o'clock

and I wouldn't get home till 10.

And I just ate it up and I left it.

So I continue to eat it up and love it.

And, you know, and I found a sense of like community there

and structure that I really like.

You can have beer, we don't wear suits.

We wear suits when we speak, that's it.

So I don't know what you heard about us,

but you know, it's just a bunch of AAs walking each other,

you know, and I love that, right?

'Cause like, you know, that's essentially what we're doing

in this community.

Like we're here to like lift each other up

and to walk each other.

You know, I will say that I feel like that I was put

on this planet to do, you know, good and to have fun

and to, you know, not to be a lot.

I'm like, you know, so if you're glum,

you're probably not gonna be in my surrounding

or my circle for very long.

You know, like it is a community where you have

the opportunity to uplift people

and really kind of shine in your sobriety.

Because if you're sitting there and you're stewing

and you're like this or that, I mean, what's the point?

The only one that is suffering is you

and you really do not have to suffer anymore.

It's been my experience that that gets easier

if you do the steps, it gets easier if you're honest.

You know, and that's what I tell my new guys

when they call and check in, at least in the beginning

is like, I was like, you can go and lie

the other 23 hours of the day.

But the only way like this relationship is gonna work

is if you're honest with one person.

And that honesty needs to come from you and me

when you check in.

Because, you know, it's like, I don't care

what you ate for lunch.

So don't lie to me that, you know, you like,

there is no reason.

And that's kind of like that first level of trust, right?

You know, other than that, I have them go to meetings.

And for me, I know there's this big Zoom world

and tons of meetings, but I like to see my guys.

I like to see them face to face at a meeting.

And I don't text my sponsor, I call my sponsor.

You know, like this is like one alcoholic

connected to another alcoholic.

And I don't, you know, I don't have to, you know,

if you can't even pick up the phone,

it's probably like, I don't think you want it.

I mean, you're just gonna check, text check in.

I mean, like, you know, it's when you really want

to change, you follow the direction.

And this is not really a hard life.

You know, I used to go to the ends of the earth

for what I needed, you know, the fix that I needed.

And I would sit and I would wait and I would wait

and I would wait, then I would wait some more.

And then I would call and I'd be like, where are you?

And I would wait some more, you know,

because like that was like, that was it,

that was what was gonna happen.

So, you know, to like come to a meeting over here,

to go to a meeting on the other side of the hill

or to go to a place that you belong,

you know, it's like, it's easy.

And any lengths to me, you know,

where I'm asked to do an AA request when asked,

it's like, that's not really any lengths anymore.

You know, helping a newcomer, I mean, helping my sponsees,

that is like, if he's done with such ease and comfort,

it's like, it's a smallest portion of paying back

of what you guys have given me.

'Cause I really never thought this was possible.

I just thought that I was gonna be able

to come to Alcoholics Anonymous for a little bit of time,

figure out what you guys were doing effectively

to go back out there and like drink and use and continue.

And what I have found here

is just a life beyond my expectations.

So if you're new, welcome to Alcoholics Anonymous.

We do not have to keep retelling the story of you being new

and what happened to you recently.

I encourage you to get a sponsor, to go to meetings

and to do the work and see if you feel better.

Because, you know, had I gone through any other path

and done anything differently

and continued to take Eric's will,

I would not be your speaker tonight.

I would most likely be in a jail or a hospital

or an institution alma mater of like Northridge.

Just 150, 150, right?

Like not enough to like, you know, diagnose.

But I'm so thankful today to know what is wrong with me.

So thank you for having me.

Mal, thank you for letting me share.

- Thank you.

- Thanks, Elizabeth.

Thanks, Eric.

- Thank you.