34 Years Sober: From Bronx Roots to Air Force Roads

- There we go.

- Did I get that right correctly?

- Yeah.

- The 30 minutes talk, okay, 30 minutes.

Jorge alcoholic.

- Hi Jorge.

- So, I guess before I start,

my sobriety date is August 5th, 1991,

which puts me, I'm 34 years sober,

continuous sobriety since the day I first walked

into that meeting on Sunday night on the west side.

I got sober on the west side.

I got sober over a party bus from the armory,

the VA hospital and everything,

but the basement of this building, you know,

and the meeting where I got sober was Ohio street.

So it's a very, very holy and important place for me,

Ohio street, to get bringing back.

Picking up sugar butts back when they had smokers

and stuff like that at the meeting,

and stuff like that, but it's a place that I really love.

So I grew up in New York City,

I'm originally born and raised in New York City,

I'm what you call a New York Rican,

Puerto Rican, I was born in New York City,

and you know, I grew up in a pretty tough neighborhood,

you know, the Bronx and Queens also, and it was,

it wasn't that easy for me, you know,

I didn't want to be, I didn't want to be Puerto Rican,

I didn't want to eat rice and beans and chicken,

I didn't want to hear salsa music or play baseball.

I wanted to be American, you know,

I wanted to play basketball,

and I wanted to go out and eat hot dogs and meatloaf,

and you know, be American.

No, just rice and beans stuff, you know what I mean?

And I love to read too, I was a big, big book reader,

and I would just spend hours and hours in the library.

You know, I grew up in gang-infested territory,

and you know, it was really hard, I was fighting every day,

it wasn't easy growing up, you know,

white skin, blue eyes, and speak pretty good English,

Spanish, black and Hispanic neighborhood,

Italians would come in, there was fights everywhere,

you know, I'd fight to get on the bus,

I'd fight in the bus, and I'd fight to get off the bus,

and then as I got off the bus, they'd text me.

So that's kind of what I remember, you know,

was just basically trying to survive in that kind of fit in,

so I didn't fit in in that part of the world, you know,

and so I'd just go to the library and I'd read a stack

of books, I'd read books, reading all kinds of books

when I was eight, nine, 10, 12 years old, you know,

and new family math was all kind of crazy,

you know, it's a typical dysfunctional family,

I didn't even, when I first heard the word dysfunctional,

I was, "Oh, I know what that means, it's my family."

So it was kind of crazy, you know,

and things didn't really fit right, you know,

and there's all this chaos and everything,

so there was really no peace, but I say that,

that's how I grew up, I'm not gonna blame anybody,

I mean, other people have more.

I'm not here to talk about horses,

I'm here to talk about myself and to who I am

and stuff like that, you know, and I just didn't fit in,

didn't fit in with the family,

didn't fit in the neighborhood, you know what I mean,

I just wanted to, you know, I, you know,

when my parents asked me, "Do I wanna go to Puerto Rico?"

I said, "No, I wanna go to Israel and work in the woods,

"no, I wanna go to France, you know,

"I wanna study French in school."

I said, "I studied French, I didn't study Spanish,"

so it's both at home, I wanna study a little language,

I wanna study the culture, I wanna be something else,

I don't wanna be here, I wanna be someplace else,

you know, you know, it's quite like the story of my life,

I don't wanna be here, I wanna be out there somewhere,

adventurous, you know, and so there I was,

18, 19 years old, and I decided to go out of the family,

I don't have everything, so I joined the Air Force,

you know, I was just joining the Air Force,

and, you know, and they sent me to Spain,

they didn't send me to France, they sent me to Spain,

you know, so I was living in Spain,

and it was really great, I mean, I got to travel,

I was living there, I spoke the language, I loved the food,

and, you know, I'd been running in the bulls

and things, I got in the bull,

so I got killed a few times, you know,

on a motorcycle, and I really spoke holes,

head in the auto motorcycle maintenance,

so I had to buy a BMW motorcycle,

so I brought an old BMW motorcycle,

worked on it, fixed it, you know, overhauled it,

all that stuff, rode that thing from Spain,

to Spain and Europe and everything,

and I played for a little soccer team over there,

and knew that nature, and I was lonely,

I was deaf, but for some reason,

even though I spoke the language and everything like that,

I had this deaf break, I didn't know what it was,

it was driving me inside, same thing I had

when I was in New York City, full desperation,

be somewhere, be somewhere else, kind of weird,

and, you know, I met this girl, and I fell in love with her,

and she was my first love, and I got transferred

from Spain to Germany, so I'd have a few drinks

every now and then, I'd have a drink here and there,

you know, I wasn't, you know, the first time I had a drink,

you know, I shipped in the bathroom,

which is typical of me, you know, sleeping in the bathroom,

in a freakin' box, you know, and so I was,

I was trying to be good for this girl,

I was trying not to be a bad person because of that nature,

and, you know, I got stationed, traveled,

went to Germany, and then tried to come back

on this temporary side, and then I got out of the search,

and went back to her, and things didn't work out for me,

and it's kind of, for me, you know,

people talk about that invisible line, you know,

I know when I crossed that invisible line,

I know exactly where I crossed it,

I was in that little town in Spain,

and I knew that that's where I had to go,

I crossed that line, so then I crossed that invisible line,

and an invisible line is like, it's like with the,

whatever the madness, whatever is that's inside of me,

just kind of came out, and I was just gonna go buck,

whatever it was, you know, I'll live that relationship,

they told me, then I'm impossible, leave me in peace,

after it, just traveled around some more, grew all my money,

and I was still in Mexico.

My parents had moved to California,

so I came to California, and I came to get lost,

didn't know what to do, there's all these freeways,

and all these cars, where are these people going,

I figured, well, what's going on here?

People going here, what's going on in this town,

it's completely lost, I didn't know anybody there, you know,

so I'd find myself, you know, I'd be in these places

with the bikers, or whatever, I'm about five feet seven,

the bikers are huge and everything,

big beers and beer, and I just, for some reason,

I just needed to be somewhere that I thought

was kind of normal, and that's kind of what I was doing,

these places, either, got a job, worked offshore,

they couldn't fit in, so I'm working offshore,

something with a great idea, being in a boat,

travel somewhere, go somewhere, do something,

and you know, if anybody's ever worked on a boat,

they'll tell you, working on a boat is like living

in a closet with 20 guys, and as soon as that boat

came to port, then, in the bar, just drinking, drinking,

and you know, I was in places, I wasn't from Alaska,

I should like that, you know, working,

and you know, these boats and everything,

and with the Eskimos, and the Aleut Indians,

and there's the fishermen up there, the crab fishermen,

you know, before the big thing on TV,

Dutch Harbor was a freaking nightmare place to be,

35, 40 years ago, you know, and I was there,

I got 86 out of that stupid island,

I had Dutch heartburn, believe it or not,

holding up Eskimos, boots and everything,

because I don't know what I did, lost a high pain job,

got 86, got next to another, I was on an airplane,

I was out of control, you know, I was looking

for something, I wasn't there, traveled around,

got lost in Central America, I'd been killed then,

going back, you know, I didn't fit in,

I was like 23, 24 years old, I did not fit in at all,

my insides were dying, you know, and like realistically,

I was drinking to fill the insides,

just kind of filled in that gap, man,

it's a huge gap, you know, it was driving me,

you know, I mean, I could not live,

I just had a living problem,

and my answer was to drink it away,

and the worst time of the day was two o'clock in the morning

when they're knocking on that thing and then go,

oh, give me a double kamikaze or something else

to get ready to go, you know what I mean?

And I was on a Sunday night, I had to go to work next day,

you know, and my idea of a good time was,

let me do the laundry, I thought I could then

shoot some pool, you know, I don't play pool,

but I'll go, it's a good idea, get me in there,

two o'clock in the morning, last call,

and I gotta go back to the laundry room,

I love the adage, and stuff is on the floor,

and I gotta go to work, wake up at six

or seven in the morning to work.

And I started out working, I had no job skill,

I mean, you know, I mean, who wants to hire a drug dealer?

Oh, I started out as a label, out there in Palmdale,

driving around, big Ford truck,

and you know, first five homes in Palmdale,

you know, and they're building a big label,

maybe I drive as a drywall guy, doing that process,

and that's how I lived, you know?

And I lived like that for quite a while,

I did a lot of things, I'm ashamed of, you know,

I left this girl pregnant and I left her with my daughter,

you know, I just, I thought that was the better deal

for them, the better deal is they're leaving me

because I'm not a good guy, you know?

So, I thought that was the way you lived,

it seemed okay to me, it seemed perfectly enough,

I mean, you know, when I was in the freaking,

they're filming the Van Nuys deal and stuff like that,

and my face is on the floor, the tile floor,

pick up the little tile and put the thing in there,

you know, I thought, isn't this what you do?

Isn't this what, isn't this what happens?

Isn't that what you're supposed to do?

Isn't this like a lovely thing I have to write down

as a thing to do, you know?

And when I was at the, like, Presbyterian Hospital,

they're putting my nose back together again

with no, they didn't, no Novick can or nothing,

they just went ahead and stepped up to me and said,

"I was already half gone anyway."

And I was just like, isn't this what you're supposed to do?

Isn't this what it is, you know what I mean?

I know the notch on the belly.

So, it all seemed perfectly normal to me.

I don't know, I don't know about you guys,

that's living, because I could live life, you know?

And so, I did that, I wound up living on the west side,

and that's how it was going, you know,

I couldn't even really walk straight,

and I'm going to a liquor store,

and they didn't try to see me.

They didn't want my credit card no more,

they just didn't want me, you know what I'm saying?

None of their guys would wear my guns, right?

They didn't want to see me no more, you know?

So, what happened was the important story.

Rockwell, they were good, Rockwell.

That's what happened is important.

My insides is dying, and what happened was,

alcohol stopped working for me.

The man had probably tried drugs.

I couldn't feel the pain anymore.

It was built, it's huge.

And I started to build, I felt terrorized.

It ain't working to me.

I'd be, I'd be.

I may be drunk as a skunk, but emotionally and inside,

I was just cleaned, supple to the man.

It was like, I could feel that stuff, couldn't put it away.

So, one time, it was so, six months before I got sober,

I was living in that basement of that building,

you know, a little bathroom.

I had, you know, the old little, little cell phone.

You know, nice little, little refrigerator.

And I woke up one night.

I felt I had this terrible dream,

but I was a blind man falling.

Look at the truth.

He's falling in this bottomless pit

in his complete darkness.

And I heard his voice in my dream saying,

"The answer you're searching for is at your body.

The faster you find your body,

the faster you'll find your answer."

That's what I said.

I got out of bed in the middle of the night,

and I got on my knees and I prayed,

"God help me, please help me."

That was the most important prayer for me,

is that prayer, "God help me, please help me God."

And so, what I did was,

I used to have these little rules and regulations,

you know, like, "Hey, don't mix your drinks.

Mix your heat before you drink."

Stupid one, since you're probably out the door telling.

I just said, "Well, you know what?

I'm gonna get to that bottom."

And I just did.

I drank and drank.

I'd wake up in the morning, had the vodka.

A little orange juice for a little vitamin.

And he put the vodka in there.

And then he'd go, "Come back and see me."

And whenever I was doing it.

I was looking for anybody.

I went out, I was at a bar,

and I met this friend,

and she reminded me of my friend.

That's right.

And I'm trying to talk to her,

but I was my usual blimbering, stupid state.

That was an end, a complete idiot that I was.

I woke up the next morning feeling unbelievable.

And the thing just disgusted at myself.

And I looked in the mirror,

and I saw this beat-up old guy.

You know, rubby deers, and scabbing, and women.

In the mirror, I saw a little boy that was me playing soccer.

I kept thinking, "What happened to that boy

that wanted to be on the soccer field?"

He was a doctor, an engineer.

They had all these different people.

Boy, and then I just saw my stuff, yeah.

And I didn't like it.

So I poured that drink down the sink.

I poured that out the bottle, about to get him.

I poured that thing down the sink.

I didn't want it.

So I called the A.

I don't know why I called the A.

Nobody told me about the A.

I was deaf and blind by the time when I was drinking.

For some reason, I called.

I went into the book, the yellow book.

In fact, people remember those.

They had the phone book.

And I called the A, and they called him.

And they was asking me all these questions,

these stupid questions.

So he's reading the 20 questions to me,

and we should do it.

And I'm thinking, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah."

And I just, I finally, about halfway through the question,

I said, "Look, I'm an alcoholic.

I just told her this."

She finally realized I didn't need no stinking questions.

Oh, Clint Eastwood movie, you know.

I don't need no stinking, I'm done.

I don't care what it is.

I mean, it's a bunch of old guys, you know,

in trench coats and around a little table, little bags.

Okay, if it's whatever, I'm done.

So she gave me the address to Ohio Street.

Ohio Street was actually five blocks away

from where I live, unbelievable where it was.

But I couldn't find it.

I thought it was over here, over there.

Anybody knows the west side?

It's kind of weird, but I was driving, driving, driving.

It's like, being started at 730 is like 715.

Couldn't find a place.

You know, I could have said,

"Hey, I can't find a place, it ain't meant to be."

But I just said, "It's gotta be here, it's gotta be somewhere."

And I found the place, which is the way it came in.

I went, like a good alcoholic, like a good old first timer.

You know, I parked across the street far away

from where I was.

I couldn't walk in there in this dark night,

and so it was my grubby self.

And it was, there was a light,

and I was drawn to the light of the door,

and a lady got up and shook my hand, you know?

And the secretary of the meeting,

and I was the other person, and I walked in here,

and my life changed.

It really changed, you know?

I think we used to cross the street,

'cause they didn't want to see me or walk away from me.

These people came to me and gave me their hands,

and gave me their business card,

and put down their personal numbers on paper.

They wanted me there, and I felt at home.

I felt like, you know that feeling?

I felt that.

I really did, you know?

And then I was so happy and joyful

that I was with my time, my time.

That's what I needed, my time.

I didn't care, whatever.

I just, my kind.

You guys understand me.

You know me.

You, you know, I'm not playing no games.

You know me.

I don't like to hide anymore.

Something like that.

And I loved it.

I really did, because for the first time,

I had something I didn't have.

I had something inside, you know?

Feeling a whole enlightenment, whatever you want to call it,

you know?

So the, that meeting is a specific group meeting,

but I became a member of the specific group meeting,

and did the whole thing.

The specific group, you know,

played baseball at the yard.

Well, they still do that, playing CZR at home,

and made softball and baseball.

Blew up my knee playing, playing unbelievable volleyball,

you know, softball, going camping, going to,

I did stuff, you know?

And I got a sponsor, and he said,

you know, you gotta go to,

he said, "Did you drink every day?"

I said, "Yeah, I drank every day."

He said, "You don't go to a meeting every day."

90 meetings in 90 days.

So I did the whole thing, going to meetings every day.

And after 90 meetings, I kept going to meetings.

That's okay.

It's a place for a drunk like me,

because like, you know, I need to be busy.

I don't smoke cigarettes.

I was out there picking up cigarette butts.

I hated smokers, but I was out there picking up

cigarette butts for making coffee.

They had these big things like coffee, you know.

At the time, I really didn't drink coffee.

I hated coffee.

You get that stuff in your fingers.

I'd be making a coffee, cleaning up,

cleaning up, you know, at the end of the meeting,

and just mapping the floors, man.

I love that, mom.

I just, it was something to do.

See, that was important.

I helped put the meeting together.

I helped be part of the meeting.

I was, I was somebody, even though I was still living

in that stupid basement of that building.

And even though I wasn't making more than 20,000 a year,

I was important.

They needed me.

They need me.

They need my, me to be there, and I need to be there.

I need to give and be part of, and not be outside,

which is what I was doing before.

I got to be inside, man.

I got to be in with the group and do the stuff,

do the deal with them, you know?

So that was my up and at floor, man.

And then later on, have coffee.

I think Rich is there,

and some of the other people would go have coffee afterwards,

and we'd go and think about whatever.

We just were sober and having fun,

and listening to music, going to ball games,

and watching the fights, and then get chicken wings,

and be with other members of AA.

You know, I never did.

I was out of it, you know?

I remember the football game.

I never knew what the end of the score was,

'cause at that, what was the end of the score?

The netting head, because I was out of it.

I watched those fights, Tyson, how I roll,

okay, Tyson, things that I painted, you know?

And I lived my life, you know?

I just lived my life as long as I worked the program,

and the program was to lay down in the 12 step,

and go through the inventory.

There's some to believe in a power greater than myself,

you know?

Believe in that power, and try to keep that power alive,

get involved, and start working up, you know,

the amends, and all that stuff, you know?

That's inside stuff, you know?

Work out what is inside.

That's driving me bonkers, or this, or that,

and do that inventory, you know?

There's a lot of good inventory,

and do it all over the band.

Fix the band, and keep the good.

That's kind of what my sponsor had me do, you know?

My sponsor used to drive me crazy.

I used to say these things,

I just drove an actual mess.

He used to tell me that my character defects

were my greatest assets.

I'd say, "Oh my God, that's really gonna kill me."

My character defects are my greatest assets, you know?

Believe it or not,

one of the greatest assets I've ever had.

What I think is my strong point,

and really my weak points, I'm blinded by them,

but I think I'm the weak points,

are really the things driving me to change, you know?

They're saying there's something wrong,

you gotta make a change in things.

Change in attitude, change in what you're doing, you know?

Things that make, you know?

So, you know, eventually, I, that's my daughter,

which is another part of the program, by the way,

you know, my sponsor would say,

"Man, you're so active in AA, you're like a radio actor.

"You wanna be playing in AA?"

I was like, "Oh, it's nice to meet you."

But I never see you go out on a date, you know?

So, he gave me a thing to say, you know?

"Oh, you're famous and everything.

"I want you to start dating, you know?"

And I was thinking, "Who wants to be a model?

"I'm a freakin' loser.

"I'm gonna take that truck for 250,000 miles.

"It's a drywall truck.

"Who wants to get in?

"I gotta take all my tools out of things,

"and pack the things so the woman can sit in.

"Ain't no ladies coming around hanging out with drywall.

"You see that?

"I'm not a financial advisor like that."

And so, I started doing that whole deal, you know?

And then he said, you know, I was making maybe 18 to 20,

"That's Steve Harris hanging out with drywall.

"I gotta do something."

He said, "All right."

It was a shock, you know?

And so, I came up with this thing.

And so, you know, I told him.

I said, "Hey, maybe I can go back to college, school,

"or something, and get a degree in something like engineering."

I said, "Hey, if I go to school by the time I graduate,

"I'll be like 42, 43."

And I think it was four years down the road.

He goes, "Well, how long are you gonna be four years from now?"

I said, "I'll be 42."

"Well, you're gonna be 42 with me.

"Go to school with yourself.

"Just do the deal."

You know, he told me to walk, walk the deal.

Don't be afraid.

Just walk the walk.

He said, "Don't think expectations.

"Just do the walk."

Face the fear, go down, regardless of what the thing is.

And that's what I did.

I went to school.

I went to college.

I went to CSUN, and you know, it was really hard.

It wasn't easy.

I mean, I'm going against 18-year-olds.

Like 40 years old, we were in calculus.

Calculus, becoming an engineer when I worked calculus.

Oh my God, you know?

I can't even draw from my checklist.

I'm gonna do calculus.

Three levels of calculus for 18 years in science.

I'm going against 18, 18-year-old boys, you know?

So I did that.

I would get up in the morning,

for those who think they can't do it.

I didn't wake up in the morning.

I didn't get up at 5.30 itself.

I'd make some big coffee, and just read.

I'd study in the morning, go to the big library,

see someone I love.

I'd get there, you know?

Spend many nights in those bathrooms, by the way.

I'd be there.

I would be studying.

I'm studying, studying, studying,

because I ain't got the natural talent.

I'm out of touch.

I don't have anything.

I'm not that smart.

But I had to walk the deal, and damn it.

I was gonna walk the deal.

I got nothing else.

This is the only walk I had.

I gotta walk it.

That's my only time to walk the deal.

So I graduated.

I graduated with honors.

I graduated, and I got a job.

I got my degrees up.

I actually got two degrees, got a master's in engineering.

I got a job.

I couldn't believe it.

First time I got hired, you know?

Actually, they got me as an intern.

I was like the oldest intern they ever had, you know?

Intern with benefits.

And here's the weird thing, you know?

'Cause it was like a co-op,

where I still go to school, and they pay me as well.

On July 4th, I was on the beach,

and I could not stop smiling.

You know why?

Because it's July 4th.

I'm on the beach.

I had the day off.

It's a holiday.

And I'm getting paid.

What?

I couldn't believe it.

'Cause you're not gonna strive for your work,

that you don't have a holiday.

You're either work, or you have work and benefits.

I couldn't believe it.

I mean, medical, dental, and all the teeth.

Oh, I can go to the dentist and things like that.

Makes you a bad teeth.

Finally get an actual checkup, a real checkup.

You know, go over to the doctor.

So yeah, I got a job.

I believe in one more drywall, and all more Mr. Fox.

I became an engineer working for an aerospace company,

Northrop Grumman over in Glopin Hills, you know?

The relationship thing, you know?

Just kind of wasn't really working,

so I just, you know, this is the last one,

and then that's it.

It's funny how the last one worked out.

I married the last one for when I said,

this is it, I'm just gonna be celibate.

And I met this gal,

and I'm just thinking a million different about her.

And it's kind of funny,

because I was the last one for her teeth.

She had given up on the whole thing, you know?

So we're like the last of each other's kind, I guess.

You know, the last of a dying breed.

And so I kind of, so long, this is the life she's fit for.

And I really believed in it.

I believe she was like a one in a million.

She's still a one in a million.

And one in maybe a hundred million for me.

And so I said, this is the one in a hundred million,

then I just gotta go for that one in a million.

And that's what I did.

I did that whole deal.

You know, my wife is from Thailand.

Went over there, multiple times throughout the year,

and the whole thing.

And then got married over there.

Buddhist, married, Buddhist, right?

I'm tough, I know it's good.

My niece saw her from that Buddhist ceremony,

and I've been married over there, and over here.

And then I said, you know, we're talking,

and I said, well, you know, I was wanting kids,

but I don't think I can have kids, you know?

And I'm like, that, that, and there.

I said, well, that's okay, I'm still gonna love you anyway.

And then about nine months later, I turned to my daughter.

And about a year and a half later,

I turned to my son, whose name is Ricky,

but he's upstairs being a typical teenager.

And then I suddenly have two kids.

And then I go, I don't know how to be a father.

I don't know what to do, you know?

I wanted to be like my father, that's for sure.

And I try to do the very best I could,

trying not to do certain things,

and trying to do what I believe is the best thing, you know?

And the problem is helping in that thing during it,

because there's guys who are with kids and things,

and I just think I'm a teenager, right?

And also, it helps me calm down and relax

and find the thing I need to do,

is where am I at in my family life?

The ability to some kind of peace of mind

and peace inside, you know?

The whole grudges, you know, trying to work things out.

You know, work the program in all of my affairs,

not just in the meeting, but also at home, you know?

And also at work, you know?

Be a member amongst everybody else,

not just at the meeting.

And that's what I try to do as best as I can,

you know, not every time.

Don't think I'm the guru on that one there.

But I just step back and I do that self-technical thing.

No, this isn't the way it should be.

I work in the process, you know?

And about six years ago,

I had an opportunity to come up to Oregon.

I mean, offered a position up here, took this position,

came up here.

So now I'm living in Oregon,

no longer living in the valley.

I don't think there's a thing called living in the valley,

but yeah, I've lived in the valley for a long time.

So I live up here in Oregon, you know,

and my typical day is, you know,

I'm meeting in the morning for a meeting.

I go Monday, Wednesday, and Fridays.

I also have a men's stag, I go in person on Sunday night.

It's a really good men's stag.

We go a lot of guys in from the recovery halls

and everything.

It's always nice to get them in there.

They come in shaking and things like that.

And I love them.

They come in shaking.

Oh, I love them really, really good, you know?

Because I know them.

You see, they're my brothers, you know?

I'm not scared of them.

Some of these guys are big.

They've been in good.

They got freaking harmed about this building.

I ain't scared of them, you know?

I'm not, they got tattoos.

I don't really care.

They're my brothers.

I know exactly where they're coming from, you know?

They've come from the last, you know, whatever they did.

I know what it's like to have something.

Why don't you call it Spanish?

They come in.

It's a bad word, but it's in Spanish,

but it doesn't count in English.

So they come in.

They come in and try to get a date.

I mean, I love them guys.

Those are my, those are people

I really, really close to my heart, you know what I mean?

So I do that meeting, and I occasionally call people,

and I occasionally, you know,

chat with other AA brothers.

I have a chat one way that I do nowadays, mostly chat.

But, you know, my life has changed, you know?

And it's only through,

it's only through the grace of God, my heart of God,

when I call it God, when I call it where I call it,

when you want to believe in God, that's right.

It's my, it's my, it's my acceptance of the solution,

just to walk the path, you know?

It has allowed me to, to make it work,

'cause I'm still the same crazy guy,

but I'm making it work, you know what I mean?

There's guidelines now.

You gotta follow your order, you know?

It was a call, the steps, the 12 steps, you know?

And no one would be on my high horse

if I'm some big miracle guy.

But I'm just stating that I truly believe

that this is only possible through the big book,

and the 12 and 12 are my favorite books.

I've got the 12 and 12 over there,

all highlighted, read it, and everything like that.

There's always something new to people.

I can read that 12 and 12,

and it's something different than me about them.

The words have a different meaning, you know?

But, you know, so my life has changed,

and I'm blessed.

I think that's about it for my talk,

because I think I've run out of steam,

so hopefully I haven't run over.

Thanks for leaving me here.

(indistinct chattering)